Niiv
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Dec 10, 2003 - 12:15 |
 
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How do I create a tournament that has a group-stage first, and then a play-off??? Is this the Swiss tourney or do I have to do two tourneys to get both league-play and playoffs? |
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Blood Bowl est salva veritate |
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cthol
Joined: Nov 10, 2003
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Dec 10, 2003 - 12:46 |
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***long post*** 
Swiss is different. In a Swiss tourney you need to seed the players in order of ability: if they're all beginners, fine, just seed them arbitrarily. Lets say you have 8 players; they're seeded 1 - 8. Then, in the first round, 1 plays 5, 2 plays 6, etc. ie the top half of the tourney plays the bottom half. for the second round, order the players in terms of results. For example, lets say there was one draw and 3 wins in the first round. Then you'll have 3 players on full points, 3 players on no points, and two on half points. The top two play each other, then the next two, and so on. The idea is that after the first round you're paired with someone who is on the same points as you for the rest of the tourney. Now, obviously that's hardly ever possible all the time, but generally it works out. after each round, rank the players in order of points, top down, and then simply pair them off. The number of rounds you'll need to produce a winner simply depends on how many players you have. If you have 2 players (pretty small tourney...) then 1 round will produce a winner (obviously). With 4 players, you'll need 2 rounds; with 8, 3 rounds; with 16, 4 rounds; etc etc etc. If you have a number between any of these, say 11 or 6 or 917... then you'll need the higher number. ie if you have 6 players then you'll need 3 rounds, not 2. The advantage of a Swiss system is that all players get to play in every round, so no-one gets bored, but it's much faster than a league, in which everyone plays everyone else. A Swiss and a Knockout will both have the same number of rounds, but obviously in a knockout players get knocked out... I find that with a Swiss system there's an incentive to keep playing even if you lose your first few games.
If you want the excitement of sudden-death playoffs then you could model it around the world cup, or european championship, both of which work quite well:) In this system (just for those that don't know...) divide your teams into groups of 4 or 5 (preferably). How many are in a group and how many groups you have depends on the size of the tourney, but, for example, the world cup has 32 teams, in 8 groups of 4; the top two in each group after an all-play-all go into the second round of 16 teams, which runs as a knockout in 4 rounds (second round, quarterfinals, semifinals, final). the european championship has only 16 teams, four groups of four and no second round, ie straight from group stages to quarter finals. This arrangement gives everyone at least 3 matches, and up to 7 if they make it to the final.
If you go for a league, such as the english premiership (or any other league for that matter) then you will end up with buckets of games, as every team has to play every other team... twice!!! there is one advantage and two huge problems with this. Advantage: tons and tons of games: In a 20 team league each team plays 38 games. This is great for spectators and fans, and, i guess, team development. HOWEVER, 1) it takes forever... and 2) very often the result can be decided long before the final round, which can make the last few rounds pointless... eg Manchester winning the league in april with 5 weeks left, because they're so far ahead on points that no-one can catch them. A compromise solution would be to split into 2 or more smaller leagues, each with 5 - 10 players (the smaller the league the quicker it will run...) and then take the top 2 or 3 teams from those leagues and play off. In effect, this is what the world cup does, with 8 mini-leagues leading to a play off stage.
hope that's some use... |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 10, 2003 - 15:47 |
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Swiss isn't what you described.
In normal Swiss 1st plays 2nd, 3rd 4th and so on. That ensures that coaches keep meeting coaches with a similar overall record and that the winner has probably played many of the best coaches on his way to victory. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
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Jugular
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 10, 2003 - 20:15 |
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However there are many different forms of Swiss tournament and obviously millions of other styles of tournament play (Two more common ones i can think of are Bar-Low and McMahon). If you'd like to find out more about them and read up and select some to suggest for implementation try looking at Chess or Go tournament layouts as they argue a hell of alot about the style of tourney. I play Go so I'd suggest looking at <http://senseis.xmp.net> for ideas |
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