Markus
Joined: Aug 26, 2003
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 Posted:
Oct 05, 2006 - 10:30 |
 
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I like synns proposal as it comes close to a common reasoning of fairness asn no one shall be able to sneak in an additional Deeproot and both players have the same limited knowledge about what will happen. Malthors idea is easy to handle but vulnerable (as is mine) to this:
Sk8tbcn wrote:
Buy what you know you will buy.
ask him if he is done with buying.
Say:
I host.
send IP, send port 8082
host port 8081
when you're oppenent answers "it doesn't work", check his roster quickly, if he changed his roster, do so also. tell him:
"ooopppsss wrong port, 8081"
re-host.
Additionally luck (bbd6) decides if the team with the higher treasury or more/better players goes first. To some this is unfair to some it is not, so its a matter of personal choice. But it would be unfair if some participants use borgens method and others use synns or malthors. With borgens the players esp the overdog wont be forced to spend as much cash as in the others. So some could say this is an unfair advantage for high tr/ts teams. I don't mind that too much, but think it would be good to get it written down in the tournament rules how to deterimine who hosts, who buys his starplayers.... first and how to start a match.
I dont mind how it is done, but it should be done in the same way for any game, as the difference for the whole tourney could be immense if someone is able to preserve his cash for the finals, while others have to spend all just to win the next game.
M |
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"When the gods wish to punish us they answer our prayers."- Oscar Wilde
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."- Niels Bohr |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 05, 2006 - 11:54 |
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yeah actually, the server, if you wanna trick, has the advantage over the client.
I mean, I know I hosted wrong port or not at all. He will have to try to connect, and cannot trick his roster.
Suppose I am coach A. I do not host. it's semi-finals. The final will be very difficult.
I'd like to have Morg. i'd like my opponent not to know I will buy him. My str is at 210, his 200, I suppose he will spare his cash for the final (he has 100k like me).
He send me port and IP. What do I do next? Try to connect? when I do, if I join the game, it's over, no morg hiring anymore.
If I buy him and it fails, I will have buyed Morg and my opponent will know and be able to react.
However, I think like Arcon. It must be far too seldom to need a rule. I'd say. You feel like your opponent is untrustworthy while you are?
Simply host like I described, but without checking his roster. The hire will take 5 secs. I don't expect people to know what is going on, unless they have readed this thread. Don't look at his roster.
It's not flawless, but the third party option is too much of an harassement. The best thing I see, would be that Christer hides player on the site if they are stars (or freebooters). |
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Markus
Joined: Aug 26, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 05, 2006 - 12:23 |
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Other possibility is to make a deadline for changeing the team. f.e. christer allows no more roster changes in a given period before the match or after the opponents know who they will play.
@ sk8bcn: It's not only a matter of trust, it's just a matter of different people having different opinions of fairness. If sthg is fair between you and me we can agree on it and we can live fine by that. But the result could be unfair to others.
Example:
We both play in the semis (unlikely as i wont play in the cup). Both have equal chaos teams and 200 k to spare. We use borgens idea. I go first and say i wont buy anything. You know if you get yourself a wizard or morg i will nullify that by changeing my team after you made your changes. So you say its ok. If we use synns idea we both dont know what the other will do. morg or a wizard is likely to make a difference in the result of the game. so we both would go all out to get into the final. The result of this is, in the semis no matter what method we use we have an equal matchup. But with borgens idea the winner has 200k+ to spend for the final.
It's like the prisoners dilemma. With synns idea you have no knowledge about the other guy cooperating, with borgens you have full info about it.
If you may present info about what you will do, be honest as your opponent is, you can get yourself an advantage over all the other coaches who don't cooperate. Thats the reason why i want to have an official ruling for how to start the game and make purchases as fumbbl is different to tabletop. I myself wouldnt mind about that, but i can forsee some guys complaining about it not beeing fair, as they didnt cooperate while others did. It's a bit like complaining about conceeding is unfair in official tourneys (I wouldn't do or mind either).
M |
_________________
"When the gods wish to punish us they answer our prayers."- Oscar Wilde
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."- Niels Bohr |
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Smess
Joined: Feb 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 05, 2006 - 12:29 |
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I don't see the trouble realy.
You can see the team of your opponent in advance, you can see how many cash he has, you know which stars he can hire (or a wizard or a combination of the two), and you know he can drop his money to gain a handicap.
Just try to think about what your opponent is most likely to do, and anticipate on that when you hire your stars/wizard.
If you both have the same star, good, then it would be like a normal game without stars, can't complain about that. If you hire different stars, it doesn't make one team that more powerfull than the other normaly, same as when both hire a wizard.
One annoying thing can be that the opponent loses some of his money for a handicap after the purchases, but that only means that he had the option to do so. If he thinks it'll help him, why not? It might backfire to him after some kills or so, or maybe he will be unable to hire much for the next game.
Third party idea has some flaws as malthor pointed out, maybe Borgen's idea is useable, but I don't think it's likely to get it made official. And you get close to pre-game arrangements which are against the rules, because not everyone in the tourney might do the same.
The stress about what the opponent is going to do is attractive in a way I feel, and adds to the appealingness of these tourneys I think. In any case, it's hardly like the game will be decided by pre-game purchases (unless you have no money yourself whatsoever but who's fault is that?). Your opponent might get a small advantage, so what? Just give him hell on the pitch |
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LordSnotball
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 05, 2006 - 12:30 |
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personally i'm not gonna play this tourney, this time...
but i'd like to point out that in the following match http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=1363270 my opponent said he was doing some buying, i chose not to, he showed up with morg 'n thorg, and well, he still lost...
i think more has to do with the coaching abilities than the stars present... the stars will help, but what you do with them is actually more important than the buying of them!
let ur opponent buy whatever he wants  |
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The Congregation - Always Recruiting
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MadTias
Joined: Jun 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 05, 2006 - 17:12 |
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| Malthor wrote: | | That is why I say just do a BBd6 in main chat to determine who will host the game. Both hire/not hire, once the game has connected, the coaches cannot rehire - doing so IS a violation of exsiting FUMBBL rules -> you cannot edit your roster once the game has connected. |
This seems to be the most workable method to me (no doubt the easiest). Any chance that we could get that into the official FUMBBL tournament rules before saturday? |
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Tophat
Joined: Jun 01, 2006
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| Posted:
Oct 05, 2006 - 17:16 |
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| LordSnotball wrote: | personally i'm not gonna play this tourney, this time...
but i'd like to point out that in the following match http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=1363270 my opponent said he was doing some buying, i chose not to, he showed up with morg 'n thorg, and well, he still lost...
i think more has to do with the coaching abilities than the stars present... the stars will help, but what you do with them is actually more important than the buying of them!
let ur opponent buy whatever he wants |
even in your own aanalysis of the game you say you won because your ag5 players....then you say its all about the coaching
interesting.... |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 05, 2006 - 17:20 |
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| Tophat wrote: | | LordSnotball wrote: | personally i'm not gonna play this tourney, this time...
but i'd like to point out that in the following match http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=1363270 my opponent said he was doing some buying, i chose not to, he showed up with morg 'n thorg, and well, he still lost...
i think more has to do with the coaching abilities than the stars present... the stars will help, but what you do with them is actually more important than the buying of them!
let ur opponent buy whatever he wants |
even in your own aanalysis of the game you say you won because your ag5 players....then you say its all about the coaching
intesting.... |
Analysis, analysis..... He is just proud about his victory.
Congrats Snottie! |
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MadTias
Joined: Jun 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 06, 2006 - 17:48 |
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| MadTias wrote: | | Malthor wrote: | | That is why I say just do a BBd6 in main chat to determine who will host the game. Both hire/not hire, once the game has connected, the coaches cannot rehire - doing so IS a violation of exsiting FUMBBL rules -> you cannot edit your roster once the game has connected. |
This seems to be the most workable method to me (no doubt the easiest). Any chance that we could get that into the official FUMBBL tournament rules before saturday? |
*bump* |
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