| Poll |
| Do you want BR in the Formula? |
| Yes - And if it is removed, I will likely leave Blackbox |
|
4% |
[ 10 ] |
| Yes - But I would play Blackbox regardless |
|
23% |
[ 53 ] |
| No - But I would play Blackbox regardless |
|
39% |
[ 91 ] |
| No - And if it remains, I will likely leave Blackbox |
|
20% |
[ 48 ] |
| Unsure - I have not decided, or do not understand BR |
|
12% |
[ 28 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 230 |
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westerner
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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 Posted:
Nov 21, 2008 - 17:19 |
 
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| koadah wrote: | You have to have reached a certain level before you can learn much from a defeat.
Getting annihilated doesn't teach you anything.
Except maybe don't play that guy again. |
I agree. Playing up too far in coach strength and getting annihilated teaches you little because A) you don't play well enough to understand why the other coach is doing certain things and B) it isn't fun (at least to me).
Ideal opponent would be someone slightly stronger than you, so that you need to bring your "A" game. And, when the opponent thinks of something you didn't, you'll be able to understand enough to perhaps incorporate it into your own game.
This is in keeping with the "ladder" concept as folks have advocated. |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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(appologies, this got a little long and just might get a little rantish at times)
| westerner wrote: | | koadah wrote: | You have to have reached a certain level before you can learn much from a defeat.
Getting annihilated doesn't teach you anything.
Except maybe don't play that guy again. |
I agree. Playing up too far in coach strength and getting annihilated teaches you little because A) you don't play well enough to understand why the other coach is doing certain things and B) it isn't fun (at least to me).
Ideal opponent would be someone slightly stronger than you, so that you need to bring your "A" game. And, when the opponent thinks of something you didn't, you'll be able to understand enough to perhaps incorporate it into your own game.
This is in keeping with the "ladder" concept as folks have advocated. |
The more reasonable side of me sees the point here. Its about personal motivation and morale, and retaining newer players to the game by them achieving victory and feeling good about themselves.
But we already have [A] for that. As well as Koadahs excellent 'Special needs coaching school'
The less reasonable sides wonders soemtimes if people think higher rated/experienced coaches use magic dice or something? I mean come on, its a game with fixed dynamics, while there may be subtleties and nuances that do take time to learn and master, the VERY best on the site still only manage a 75% win ratio, becasue the factor of luck is large in BB and cannot be avoided (though admittedly can be reduced in impact) by experience and knowledge.
But playing 1000 games doesnt mean you get to use dice with 2x pows and only 1 push. Nor does it give you extra players, rerolls or time. The players available are the same to all coaches, no matter your number of games played or mensa status.
To hear the CCNWT crowd (crap coaches need wins too) you would think a win by a supposedly 'lesser' coach is an impossibility. Frankly that simply isnt true.
There are good coaches, like say emphasy, that will happily tear you a new one for every mistake you make, but guess what? THEY make mistakes too!!! they even LOSE GAMES!!
Now admittedly my view is highly informed by the fact i learned in the school of hard knocks, coming to the site having never played since first edition and even doing the traditional 'i'll leap in and play a few games before i bother with the rules'. There was no [A] back then and being cherrypicked in [R] was the only way to learn.
But guess what? I DID learn. I took the view that if i wanted an easy time i could play one of the legion of single player games around with laughable AI and pleasantly shallow learning curves, but that in a human v human enviroment 2 people enter and 1 wins. Simple as that. I knew id likely be the loser for a while, but that in any 1 v 1 situation, i had a decent chance even against a veteran.
There is no admin client, there are no magic dice you earn after x games, nor does anyone ever hand you a secret file titled 'the real BB rules'. Its ends as it starts, 1 v 1, someone will win, someone will lose. End of.
In my time here i have lost to some frankly horrific coaches and beaten some coaches that are undeniable far far better than me. i fully expect both to happen again.
Listening to some, notably the two quoted above, you would think these things an impossibility. maybe we need a little visit back to the real world rather than just accept this tosh without questioning. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 22, 2008 - 10:32 |
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ok, at first i said i didnt care about BR being in or not
however, now i do
in that last 5 games i have played teams with a total of over 120 TS up on my teams, and it getting dull. I have no problem facing killer khem/orcs/chaos etc with my elfs, but i do when i'm also down 30 TS. I won't be playing B again until this is sorted out. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 22, 2008 - 14:54 |
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I usually enjoy your posts PurpleChest but on this occassion I don't see you adding anything to Hogshine's post, which does make a valid point.
You seem to have completely missed the point. The point is about getting better games. Simple.
A formula that where TS is similar, makes it more likely that coaches of a similar level play each other, rather than playing coaches of a very different level, makes for better games than a formula that matches by TS alone.
After thrashing it out with Circ, Jan and all the others that is my opinion.
I don't know what Christer's opinion is or if the current formula accurately reflects Christers opinion. This is an Alpha after all.
If people are p*ssed off for any reason with the games they are getting that will mean less teams in the box so less chance of a similar TS game.
I would oppose having two black boxes for the same reason.
When I made the "Getting annihilated doesn't teach you anything." comment I wasn't actullay thinking about blood bowl at all. I was thinking about my favourite sport where in the past I regularly trained with two world champions.
I learned a hell of a lot from those guys but only because they went at half speed, stopped and started and explained what they were doing. At full speed it was a blur and at full power it was goodnight.
Admittedly that was a game where being out classed was much more hazardous to the health than playing a board game. I still don't see why being matched mostly against coaches of a similar level is such a bad thing. That is not the same as asking for TS handicaps. Though if there is going to be a handicap it probably would not improve the competitiveness of the game if it is handed to the better coach.
Maybe if Chuck can't make it we'll see PurpleChest vs Anderson Silva at the O2.
I'd buy a ticket for that and we might all learn a thing or two 
And yes, I feel like a special needs student when I see the speed that some of you take your turns. |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 3 more teams needed |
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Juff
Joined: May 24, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 22, 2008 - 15:20 |
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Nothing much to add to what's already been said, other than I'm much on the side of not having BR as a factor; if the idea is that matches will be decided only on luck, why not toss a coin and save an hour? |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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Koadah you are right, it was more of a rant than a reasoned arguement.
But i felt driven to it but the seemingly accepted truth that 'newer/lesser' coaches need protecting form 'better/experienced ' coaches.
which i dont accept to be true. Simple as that.
(and i do accept the 145 club is a really good and useful thing to have, and you provide a fantastic service in running it)
but rookie coaches get:
[A]
the 145 club
10 games without CR affected
3 games with every new team without CR affected
To see the CR of every coach on gamefinder, or who challanges them.
Now it seems they are to be offered protection in [B] as well, and more than that, that i am expected to lube up, strip naked and leave the door unlocked.
well I say enough. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 22, 2008 - 17:23 |
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Is anyone against the idea to first match teams up after ts (within 10 or so) and then compare BR after that to give more challenging matchups? That should give everyone what they want? It creates a ladder for those trying to "win" the division and it gives the not-so-good coaches better chance of meeting someone of their own calibre. |
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Do you play ranked and wonder where all the good coaches are? Are you also from Sweden? Then join the Swedish league! |
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