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CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2009 - 10:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I was wondering, if [B] uses the same set of racial factors as [R].

If it does, could it be possible to split the datasets in the near future to have a pure [B] set?

I can imagine that they might look different, as some teams tend to pick around their weaknesses in [R] (e.g. Amazons playing humans that are low on tackle or have no tackle/MB).
sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2009 - 11:12 Reply with quote Back to top

agrees!

Something like:

If [number of B games of this setting]>N then
Use B games
Else
Use B+R games
end if

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Reisender



Joined: Sep 29, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2009 - 12:03 Reply with quote Back to top

if numbers allow... agreed
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2009 - 12:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I like it Smile

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treborius



Joined: Apr 05, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2009 - 23:08 Reply with quote Back to top

i almost suspect, that's what's happening already - if not: i definetly agree!
Rijssiej



Joined: Jan 04, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2009 - 23:09 Reply with quote Back to top

why would picking only go one way?
treborius



Joined: Apr 05, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2009 - 23:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Rijssiej wrote:
why would picking only go one way?

?
CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2009 - 23:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Because lots of Chaos take all the games they can get?
treborius



Joined: Apr 05, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2009 - 23:44 Reply with quote Back to top

hmmmm, is there some hidden meaning - i simply don't get your (probably ingenious) flashs of thought? Wink
sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2009 - 09:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Me neither

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CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2009 - 10:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Let me recap:
I suggested, that some teams could pick around their weakness in [R]. As an example, I chose amazons, that favor teams of a race for playing, that have no or little tackle.

Rijssiej then objected (as far as I understood):
As every race can pick (picking goes both ways) things should even out.

Upon which I replied:
Some races (e.g. chaos) are more prone to being picked due to having fewer game options generally. So a tackle-free clawed chaos would like to exclude the really dodgeheavy elves and rather take those elves that chose block first - but they won`t, because if they can play elves once a month, it`s more than usual.
Khudzlin



Joined: May 24, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2009 - 11:35 Reply with quote Back to top

and some races can consider themselves lucky to find games at all (because they're hated for more or less rational reasons): khemri, dwarf

a low-tackle khemri team is a pushover for a dodge-heavy team (amazons, dodgy elves), or even a reasonably fast and agile team with some dodge (humans, skaven) -- there is ofc, no such thing as a low-tackle dwarf team, but a well-coached fast team can dance around them
sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2009 - 12:26 Reply with quote Back to top

IMO, it's not a matter of races but a matter of coaching skill. Let's say you are a serious ranked player (in the sense that you want to win your games), seldom would you play dwarves with your amazons if the opponent is a good coach. Hence, those matchups are more when a dwarf coach manage to cherrypick a noob, making the win percentage better.

Other exemple: you have flings. If those elves have 13 players, 3 skills that are block*2 +1 DP, you are more tempted to look somewhere else.

Ok, you can say that the same elf coach could pick another fling noob. True. But IMO, every race hasn't his reversed cherrypicking.

No Zon cherrypick would pick dorfs. No picking fling would pick norses. No picking chaos would pick zons.

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Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2009 - 12:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Looking at it from a different angle. I've never played a [B] game, but I imagine if I was to create such a team, regardless of it's race I would probably build it baring in mind that the majority of my opponents will be Orcs, Chaos or Khemri.

Would the [B] racial statistics be anymore accurate than the [R] ones or would they just simply be inaccurate in a different way?

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sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 25, 2009 - 15:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Kinks wrote:
Looking at it from a different angle. I've never played a [B] game, but I imagine if I was to create such a team, regardless of it's race I would probably build it baring in mind that the majority of my opponents will be Orcs, Chaos or Khemri.

Would the [B] racial statistics be anymore accurate than the [R] ones or would they just simply be inaccurate in a different way?


First, B isn't that much basher overcrowded anymore. Simply because, most B coaches that stayed are the one liking not to have to go through the gamefinder. Hence, most just want to play, and create a good variety of teams.

Then about inaccuracy:
It's still inaccurate, but less than in ranked. Cherrypicking is disabled in B. However, you still have behaviors effecting the win percentage:

e.g.If you play to have a top ranking, would you play vampire? Maybe not. But if you'd take vampire, their win percentage would probably be higher.

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