Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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 Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 16:12 |
 
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Thanks for the advice wombats...
| Quote: | | I really loved the Skavenslaves idea which I believe Zy Nox is referring to... |
i like the skyrers too - especially the ST3 deathroller - that idea rocks (though I think it should be ST4!)
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| Quote: | | but differentiate Clan Moulder from Skavenslaves and make them contribute something new and you're in with a shot, maybe. |
Maybe I should go back to ST3 for the rats. Right now i'm thinking strong and fast, but easy to injure - which fits the skaven image nicely....
40k 0-12 Giant Rats 6 3 3 4 - Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Dodge, Stunty, No Hands
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I'm not sure more Rat Ogres are a good idea as they are pretty much the best big guy around - especially in stunty with their ball carrying capabilities. If 0-2 were allowed, packmasters would need to be limited to 0-1, leaving only one player on the team without WA. My suspicion is that wouldn't matter since the Rat Ogres would demolish the other team - if any dared play them 
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| Quote: | | anything else apart from Giant Rats that is fluffy for Clan Moulder? |
The only other thing that could fit the fluff is rat swarms...
60k 0-2 Rat Swarms 3 1 4 4 - Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, guard, jump up, BIG GUY
Guard represents them snarling and snapping at the ankles of surrounding players
Jump up represnts the fact that there isn't really any one rat to block.
Big Guy represents the fact they are a ravenous swarm of mindless beasts - therefore practically untrainable.
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| Quote: | | They need more ball handlers as with Wild Animal and No Hands the team will be crippled. |
Nope - Thats the key weakness of the team - especially if the rats once more have ST3. Remove that and they would be unbalanced. My original thoughts on guard were to make it easier to defend the ball carrier - I think perhaps it would have been too easy... limiting it to the 0-2 ST1 Rat Swarms could solve this problem. |
Last edited by Molt on %b %21, %2004 - %16:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Korso
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 16:23 |
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wtf is fluff?
Forgive me not to speak nerdish english as my native language...  |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 16:40 |
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Hi Korso - fluff is some kind of relevant background/story for your team or player.
For example: having the 'Hobbit' player type in bloodbowl would make no sense, since in the Warhammer world they are called Halflings
In this case the warhammer Armies - Skaven book has listed under Clan Moulder:
1. Rat Ogres lead (from behind!) by Packmasters
2. Giant Rats lead by Packmasters
3. Rat Swarms
4. Monsters (for mounts etc)
Hope thats made it clear |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 16:48 |
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----------------------------------------
CLAN MOULDER ROSTER MKIV
130k 0-1 Rat Ogres 6 5 3 8 - Wild Animal, Big Guy, MB, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail
50k 0-2 Packmasters 7 2 3 7 - none
50k 0-2 Rat Swarms 4 1 3 5 - Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Stand firm, Jump up
40k 0-12 Giant Rats 6 3 3 4 - Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Dodge, Stunty, No Hands
Apocathary: 50k Rerolls: 60k
----------------------------------------
SKILLS:
Rat Ogre - G, St, Ph
Packmasters - G, Ph
Giant Rats - Ag, Ph
Rat Swarms - Ag, Ph
----------------------------------------
Not sure about the price for rat swarms... maybe 60k with AV6, or 50k with AV4/5... dunno |
Last edited by Molt on %b %21, %2004 - %17:%Sep; edited 5 times in total |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 17:07 |
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hmm on the Rat Swarms maybe the Guard or Jump Up should be made either Piling On, or Dirty Player. Either of them neatly represents the rats swarming over prone bodies. what do you think? I think Jump Up/Piling On would probably be the best...
I don't really want to give them anything bashy - thats the problem. I figure this team is bashy enough with the packmasters having general skill access. How about jump up and stand firm? that would be interesting...
OK one more little change: +1 MV (to 4) and -1 AG (to 3)
one more... removed Big Guy
Something I may consider (after testing) is removing the Wild Animal from the Rat Swarms, making them more players that can be relied on to block gaps/exert tackle zones - something I perceive may be a problem in defense. |
Last edited by Molt on %b %21, %2004 - %18:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Wotfudboy
Joined: Feb 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 18:13 |
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Perhaps you should have a new big guys called the Pied Piper!
Seriously though, I think this idea could go a long way, and has more merit than most of the poorer attempts at concept stunty teams that I've seen! |
_________________
See my blog: https://wotfudboy.blogspot.com/.
WIL. |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 18:47 |
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hehe good idea! This is what I would do - IF this team is added to stunty leeg AND Star Players are ever added to stunty AND ski junkie decided to implement it (i.e. when hell freezes, pigs fly and peace reigns on Earth  )
30K (60K) The Pied Piper - Goblin Star Player 6 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, Right Stuff, Star, Magic Flute.
(Plays for Goblin and Clan Moulder teams - goblin teams half price)
Magic Flute - This instrument's piercing melody provides inspiration to weaker minded allies whilst distracting foes. Whilst the whistling player is standing on pitch all Really Stupid rolls automatically pass!. In addition treat the player with the magic flute as if they have the FOUL APPEARANCE skill. Secret Weapon roll: 8+ |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 22:30 |
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TBH, I kinda dislike the idea of so many Str 3 players on a stunty team, would kinda be used as a destroy of teams.
My initial idea was for something akin to the Skaven team, faster and weaker, hence the 8 1 3 5 players.
Loved the throwing star idea though, if such a thing could be implemented. |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 23:18 |
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Yeah sorry - I seem to have commandeered this thread for my own nefarious purposes.
Your fear about the ST3 actually seems pretty unlikely. Just played a game against a nurgling team (admittedly of higher TR) and it seemed underpowered. Thinking long term the Rat Swarms and Giant Rats are unlikely to ever develop as they have no ball handling skills. We had a chat afterwards about what needed changing... Thanks for the game - and the chat afterwards - I have removed your name - if you want to relinquish your anonymity feel free
<Molt> the question is - was did i loose because i'm a bad coach, or because the team
itself is bad
<other coach> i gota bit stronger team
<other coach> but i dont see the rat team getting much betterw
<other coach> first
<other coach> the packmaster should get stunty and dodge
<other coach> then make 4 of them
<other coach> remove the small ones
<red> I think you're right
<other coach> and maby remove dodge from the bigrats
<other coach> as they have st 3
<other coach> (and reduce the cost)
<other coach> and raise the armour on them a step
<other coach> or 2
<other coach> 5 armour no dodge looks alot better
<other coach> av 4 is jsut die from every block 
<other coach> see my points?
<other coach> 4 slavers
<other coach> no st 1 ones
<other coach> should be alot more playable
<other coach> but you said general acess
<other coach> access
<Molt> i think you're right
<other coach> thing is that when you get blodge on them
<Molt> no ag acces though
<other coach> your opponents will have those beasts i had
<other coach> ahh k
<other coach> then they will work as blitzers
<other coach> block/tackle/ (rsc/claw on doubles)
<other coach> and be the core of the team
<other coach> maby even giving the slavers str 1
<other coach> and stunty/dodge
<other coach> ot hmm
<other coach> maby wouldent work
<Molt> i think they need ST2
<other coach> yeah
<other coach> to be runners
<Molt> I think next time i'll leave as is, and increase them to 0-4 as you suggested
<other coach> but give them stunty
<Molt> you think?
<other coach> yeah
<other coach> no general access thou
<Molt> so 7 2 3 7, dodge, stunty, ag skills
<other coach> er
<other coach> i mean agi
<Molt> oh ok
<Molt> so 7 2 3 7, dodge, stunty, just Gen skills
<other coach> eather: 7 2 3 7, dodge, stunty, ag skills
<other coach> or: 7 2 3 7, stunty, gen skills
<Molt> i think the second is more interesting
<other coach> shouldent give them both dodge and gen skills
<other coach> then you will have blodgers straight away
<other coach> and just using them for the play
<Molt> why do they need stunty?
<Molt> just cos its stunty leeg?
<other coach> yeah
<other coach> mainly cus of that
<Molt> hmmm i'll think about it
<Molt>
<other coach> i mean stunty is both a + and a -
<other coach> but without dodge its not that much of a +
<Molt> because of the inj rolls
<Molt> true.
<Molt> I suppose I saw them more like standard skaven linesmen, just with st2
<Molt> if anything they should be stronger, more like stormvermin according to the
fluff in the warhammer armies book
<Molt> but i'm ignoring that ;->
<other coach> hmm
<other coach> well concider this
<other coach> make the gigant rats st 2
<other coach> and 4-0 slavers
<other coach> with st 3
<Molt> hmm that sort of makes the rats pretty useless
<Molt> though i supopse they are already that
<other coach> yeah
<Molt> would 4 ST3 players be too good though - with the RO you could pretty much
ignore the rest of the team
<Molt> especially as they get block/tackle
<other coach> yeah
<Molt> so either 1 Rat Ogre and 4 ST2 Packmasters, or 2 Rat Ogres and 2 Str 2 or 1 Rat Ogre and 2 St 3.
(conversation ended)
It was suggested to get rid of the rat swarms. I'm not convinced - but they were pretty useless that game. They definitely need tweeking. |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 21, 2004 - 23:43 |
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----------------------------------------
CLAN MOULDER ROSTER MKV
130k 0-1 Rat Ogres 6 5 3 8 - Wild Animal, Big Guy, MB, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail
50k 0-4 Packmasters 7 2 3 7 - none
60k 0-2 Rat Swarms 4 1 4 5 - Really Stupid, Dodge, Stunty, No Hands, Stand firm, Jump up
30k 0-12 Giant Rats 6 3 3 5 - Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Stunty, No Hands
Apocathary: 50k Rerolls: 60k
----------------------------------------
SKILLS:
Rat Ogre - G, St, Ph
Packmasters - G, Ph
Giant Rats - Ag, Ph
Rat Swarms - Ag, Ph
----------------------------------------
Changes made:
Number of Packmasters increased to 0-4
Giant Rats gained +1 AV and lost the dodge skill: they were dropping like flies with AV4. Made them cheaper to represnt how they are quite possibly the single worst player in the creation of Bloodbowl
Rat Swarms given AG4 and increased in value to 60k: with really stupid they can't run and with ST1 + MV4 they can't hide - at least now they should be able to get out of tackle zones (they are the now the only players with the dodge skill).
The alternative is to give them ST2 ... don't know really. |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2004 - 01:07 |
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After mulling over the conversation I have poat game it occured to me an alternative route is to give the Giant rats ST2 and Diving Tackle.... and lose Wild Animal.
This completely changes the team dynamic... The Giant Rat snap at player's, leaping on them if they turn their backs (diving tackle).
Meanwhile smaller rats swarm over bodies, dragging them to the floor (piling on)
The Packmasters direct the attacks - keeping well back - occasinally attempting ball carrying and blitzes.
The Rat Ogres do what Rat Ogres do best
The team has changed dramatically - its pretty bashy now - its strengths have changed - but it retains its key weakness - only 4 players capable of ball carrying. At least now it should be easier to position some players to protect them
Rat Swarms in particular have been beefed up - They are now the unreliable ones - not the Giant Rats it make more sense for single animals to be more controllable. If they seem overly powerful do not forget that they have Wild Animal and Really Stupid - making them a pretty risky blitz proposal.
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CLAN MOULDER ROSTER MKVI
130k 0-2 Rat Ogres 6 5 3 8 - Wild Animal, Big Guy, MB, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail
50k 0-2 Packmasters 7 2 3 7 - none
70k 0-2 Rat Swarms 4 2 3 5 - Wild Animal, Really Stupid, No Hands, Dodge, Stunty, Stand Firm, Piling On, Jump up
30k 0-12 Giant Rats 6 2 3 6 - Really Stupid, No Hands, Stunty, Diving Tackle
Apocathary: 50k Rerolls: 60k
----------------------------------------
SKILLS:
Rat Ogre - G, St, Ph
Packmasters - G, Ph
Giant Rats - Ag, Ph
Rat Swarms - Ag, Ph
---------------------------------------- |
Last edited by Molt on %b %22, %2004 - %14:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2004 - 02:33 |
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