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Poll
Would you play in the [AS] League?
Yes!
19%
 19%  [ 5 ]
No
80%
 80%  [ 21 ]
Total Votes : 26


koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 00:19 Reply with quote Back to top

The_Murker wrote:
Lots of people seem to 'totally get' why this isn't allowed, but no one yet has explained why. How it could run contrary to the divisions princilpe of allowing people to chose their opponents.

How is this detramental to the Ranked division? I'm not currently asking If it IS allowed. I'm asking why YOU think it should not be allowed. Anyone..


You even appeared to admit that coaches could pimp their teams for Majors.

Why don't I just create a 'group' of 10 coaches and pimp our teams?

Sure, anyone can choose to only ever play vs elves, flings or whatever. But if you try to organise it the admins will nail you and you won't get much support or sympathy.

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 00:27 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd agree if it were only 10 people. I'm hoping more than 50 people might choose to play more races for the fun of it.

Getting some games against gobos and underworld would be a by product. And everyone would be free to create a few teams in such a manner to enter the frey.

I'd like to be able to put a set of goblins up on Gamefinder now and take the first coach who wants the game. But I'd also like other people to do the same thing once in a while. Same for elves.. same for slann. Right now it's just a couple of 'punishment gluttons' and noobs who play 'off' teams on Gamefinder. I dunno.. I think Ranked could be much more busy if people volunteered more choice of opponent to other players.

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easilyamused



Joined: Jun 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 00:36 Reply with quote Back to top

The_Murker wrote:
Lots of people seem to 'totally get' why this isn't allowed, but no one yet has explained why. How it could run contrary to the divisions princilpe of allowing people to chose their opponents.

How is this detramental to the Ranked division? I'm not currently asking If it IS allowed. I'm asking why YOU think it should not be allowed. Anyone..


easilyamused wrote:
The_Murker wrote:
It's just a way of naming team. Teams that only want to play against other kinds of coaches.


^^^^

This right here is the problem. Yes, in R you can refuse any game you want and play whoever you choose but to say we will not play bash teams (who aren't the problem in R) is as close as an IG agreement as you can get without actually making one.

The problem with R is picking, and this group does not solve that problem, if anything it promotes it.


Your own rules make this a closed group, therefore it belongs in league. It's quite simple really. Take away the restriction of only playing other [AS] and there is no issue. Otherwise this is a group of like minded coaches who want to avoid bash teams to stay healthy and then enter majors.

I'm not saying that was your intention but that's how it will be perceived and how some coaches will try to abuse and game the system.

Like I said, heavy bash teams in R are not a problem, they just don't get games.

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 00:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not disagreeing with what you just said. What I'm saying is that the Ranked Division IS currently a division consisting mainly of coaches trying to avoid bash teams so they can enter major tournaments. So let's give these guys some games. As long as they give some other people some games too. Bash away.. the more the merrier. But nobody wants to consistantly put their silly fun teams on the alter of clawpomb, or dwarfpomb, or orksmash, if no one else ever does it for them.

But if alot of people were to do so, we could all get games. All build teams. All learn goblins.. and try to destroy teams with bombs in the process.

It's not trying to do something in a sneaky fashion. Not trying to hide anything. It is overt and open. It just needs to be popular. I'm assesing the popularity of the idea here.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 00:51 Reply with quote Back to top

So just drop rule 2.

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 01:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Or make a Goblins-only metagroup, would be so much simpler, and probably lots of fun, especially if you came up with lots of different ways to win.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 01:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I have to say, goblins only would rock!

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Woodstock



Joined: Dec 11, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 02:21 Reply with quote Back to top

@murker; your idea is nothing but a safe training field for majors, the last time it happened, this happened; https://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1571


Seeing how you name it a league, and only allowed in-league play it is pretty clear why this is some thing for league, and league only.
Sammler_der_Seelen



Joined: Feb 01, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 08:53 Reply with quote Back to top

1+ what Woodstock said,that was the biggest Scandal that happend in my whole time here.It destroyed the integrety of the idea of Box as it was.And it was the first i was thinking about as i see your idea.Its simply a way to cheat the majors in my eyes.
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 10:14 Reply with quote Back to top

@ Woodstock

Wow. That's 20 guys in that link above! Do you think they were all seperate individuals or were there alot of 'fake' accounts?

Regardless, it it a great way to analyse what was illegal about their behavior. The link leads me to believe that they were playing in such a way as to avoid injuring each others team. ie: not fouling in a ruleset where fouling is clearly a good means to victory etc. I also assume that they were communicating with each other behind the scenes.. and that to unravel the mystery the admin had to dig into their personal messages, etc. etc.

I can see why a group of people working together to actively avoid damage would have an unfair advantage on the tournement scene with respect to how fast they could morph their teams into to form they most like. They of course don't actually have an advantage when it comes to the actual tournamnet game, other than team size/quality. If anything, I'd be jealous of their cooperation, and how they were getting so many games amongst themselves. I'd wish that were and option everyone had. I'd also frown upon the practise of not actually competing in those games. Every game should be a fun attempt to smash another guys pixels as your try to win against a resisting opponent. And I guess those guys weren't doing that.

To contrast, I'd like to play some lesser used teams and have fun trying to destroy my opponent while I win the game. I'd also like other people to do the same. And if lots of people were doing this than we could all just join gamefinder and quickly get a game, sometimes with a favored team, sometimes with a 'silly' team. The reason for the prefix and 'League' if you will, would be to make everything transparent, and to hopefully attract new members into the 'club', when they see other users quickly logging on to gamefinder and disappearing right away with another coach in the 'club.'

Basically, trying to get more fun games in. Overtly. Without cheating. Still violent. There wouldn't be anything extra for admin to police, as far as I can see. You'd all still be on the hook as you are nowe to make sure the same coaches arn't just playing the same guy over and over. I dunno, I can see the parallel with the example you are all worried about, but I fail to see the harm if it is all in the open and accessable to everyone.

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robocoyote



Joined: Oct 19, 2010

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 10:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't understand how you don't see that this.would.be illegal and not.work.at.all.........
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 10:45 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
So just drop rule 2.


Probably better drop rule 1 as well. Wink

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 31, 2013 - 11:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Agreed.

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