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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2014 - 18:55 Reply with quote Back to top

happygrue wrote:
How many teams actually have interesting choices you can make in the roster?


Oh, I would say about 80% of them have interesting choices and you can make them unique.

BUT

In order to do that you break all the rules for proper Blood Bowl team building that is hammered into everyone around here.

Proper as in, the most effective use of skills and balancing of TV.

You show up with a off the wall build like, use both Dark Elf assassins with some dump off runners with NoS and well now you will get lambasted as some screw loose in the brain coach and then a full anal probe of your CR, win/loss and so forth.

We see that even in this limited discussion of Slann. There are in the end two camps on slann. Blitzers and go offensive in nature or go no blitzers and catcher heavy and play a more defensive/ball in danger approach.

NUFFLE help us all if some crazy coach comes around and says why not go with 4 blitzers built with MB/PO and then go 4 catchers desinged for ball handling and ball retrieval and use those linos as ball poppers.

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Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2014 - 19:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:
Slann are a lucker's pipe-dream! Wink

Fixed that for ya. Wink

Slann are a trap for any coach who thinks that Leap will be a solution to their positioning struggles. Leap is the rabbit that gets pulled out of the hat for a score (or to stop one), and/or late in any turn as a "medium risk / high reward" gamble for the last player(s) to move.

Leap as a game plan will burn RR faster than any other team (except maybe a 6-vamp roster), and crash to the ground (literally and figuratively) once those are gone.

If you rely on Elf luck to give you a win 1 in 4 games and enjoy crazy plays (fail or no), then Slann may indeed be your dream team.

If you like that AND winning (not to mention "AND surviving"), it takes more than Luck. Cool

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Let's go A.P.E.!

(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...)
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2014 - 19:11 Reply with quote Back to top

I think you missed my point... If you are a Lucker (as in very lucky), then they are your Dream team. Wink

When Luck holds Slann are unbelievable. But luck is...well...erratic at best.
Hitonagashi



Joined: Apr 09, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2014 - 19:25 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
happygrue wrote:
How many teams actually have interesting choices you can make in the roster?


Oh, I would say about 80% of them have interesting choices and you can make them unique.
NUFFLE help us all if some crazy coach comes around and says why not go with 4 blitzers built with MB/PO and then go 4 catchers desinged for ball handling and ball retrieval and use those linos as ball poppers.


happygrue wrote:
How many teams actually have competitive interesting choices you can make in the roster?


Fixed that for you Razz

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RC



Joined: Sep 22, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2014 - 19:55 Reply with quote Back to top

The slann lino is pretty good value and I like the catchers as well. The krox is a luxury and the blitzers are very high value and I think it is hard for them to be as flexible and useful as for example wardancers.
I like slann but I think you need to find 1 thing with them and focus on it. Either you go blitzer heavy and go for mb,po guard, block, tackle dudes and there by maybe having less catchers and less skilled linos. Or you go the opposite - and then you will have fairly weak blitzers.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 20, 2014 - 20:04 Reply with quote Back to top

This full moon is lasting a long time.....

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Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 23, 2014 - 11:36 Reply with quote Back to top

What about 2nd skill after wrestle?
I've heard SB or tackle, but how about fend?
Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 23, 2014 - 11:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Roland wrote:
What about 2nd skill after wrestle?
I've heard SB or tackle, but how about fend?

I don't have that much experience with Slann, but I'd assume that linefrogs with with permanent injuries are privileged for LoS-duty and Fend (after Wrestle).

Healthy Wrestlers wouldn't like Fend as 2nd skill as far as I can see.
notbobby125



Joined: Feb 28, 2013

Post   Posted: Apr 23, 2014 - 22:30 Reply with quote Back to top

With diving tackle, you will want your blitzers standing up as much as possible. You will want wrestle on your linefroggies, and possible a Strip ball/Wrestle combo on one of your Catchers.

You will want block on any linefrog that gets guard and possibly on your kicker.
notbobby125



Joined: Feb 28, 2013

Post   Posted: Apr 23, 2014 - 22:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Roland wrote:
What about 2nd skill after wrestle?
I've heard SB or tackle, but how about fend?


You can always mix it up a bit. There isn't much point to getting to much strip ball on one team.
Rat_Salat



Joined: Apr 22, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 23, 2014 - 22:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Wrestle alone is pretty decent for taking down blodgers on a 2D (80% with reroll).

Block goes with guard. Tackle with Wrestle. I wouldn't take strip ball except on a dedicated sacker. This could be a catcher, +AG linefrog or +AG blitzer. A wrestle/strip ball catcher is your best option if you didn't get +AG anywhere. Obviously a +ST catcher is a great choice as well.

Wrestle/Strip on a linefrog gives you an 83% chance of a leaping 1D strip. -2D with a catcher is an 85% chance with reroll. Without a reroll, the catcher is still better (58% vs 55%). Dauntless increases your chances further, making the catcher sacker a clear choice regardless of the development level of the two players. Only +AG on the linefrog/blitzer will even the odds.

The numbers say that strip ball on a wrestle linefrog is a bad choice. Take tackle, because strip ball catchers are nearly useless against sure hands, so you want that backup plan somewhere on the roster. The wrestle/tackle linefrog also has a good chance vs an open field blodger (93% on 2D, and 75% on 1D, with reroll).
Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 23, 2014 - 23:12 Reply with quote Back to top

thx for advice!
how many catcher sackers is optimal? two?
and two blodge sidesteppers?
Rat_Salat



Joined: Apr 22, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2014 - 00:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I think one is fine, because you will very likely have a few other lower percentage sacking options on the team. If you have to use a wrackle lineman, your leap/sack percentage drops to 61%, but this is probably a better option than investing in a second sacker.

You're probably going to have a couple of wrackle lineman for secondary sacking, plus an attrition blitzer with tackle/mighty blow. If your sacker frog is MNG, dead, or KOed, you can use one of these secondary options for a game or three.

Here's an idea of some of the player types you might want:

Blitzer - Block, Mighty Blow, Tackle
Blitzer - Block, Dodge, Stand Firm/Sidestep
Catcher - Block, Dodge, Guard
Catcher - Wrestle, Strip Ball
Lineman - Guard, Block
Lineman - Wrestle, Tackle
Lineman - Wrestle, Dodge
Krox - Guard, Stand Firm

So, rules of thumb:

Catcher - guard on doubles, wrestle first if you have none, dodge/block on the rest
Blitzer - Block first on all, followed by dodge or mighty blow
Lineman - Wrestle first, unless doubles... then guard followed by block. Double after wrestle = dodge. Get kick somewhere, but as a later skill (Block, Guard, Kick). Dirty player = probably not.
the_Sage



Joined: Jan 13, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2014 - 00:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't really agree on the wrestle+dodge lino, but otherwise this looks pretty right to me (though if you're going to say you want a guard lino and catcher, I'd add a block krox to the wishlist).
Rat_Salat



Joined: Apr 22, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 24, 2014 - 06:07 Reply with quote Back to top

the_Sage wrote:
I don't really agree on the wrestle+dodge lino, but otherwise this looks pretty right to me (though if you're going to say you want a guard lino and catcher, I'd add a block krox to the wishlist).


Wrodge isn't my favorite combination of all time, but it's probably better than wrestle/guard or just ignoring the double with wrestle/tackle. You could also do what I sometimes do on linerats, and go Wrestle/Leader.
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