Qaz
Joined: Apr 28, 2004
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 Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 00:08 |
 
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ignore and sac him. its CRaP after all!
and buy a damn Troll. |
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"he who has relied least on fortune is established
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Jamerson
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 00:42 |
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| Smeat wrote: | Take the +Ag (edit: see that you did, good imo). He'll become your ballcarrier, and that will free up your +Ag blitzer to become a maneuverable sweeper/hitter with the (normal) skills he's supposed to take. (Same w/ your Blodge blitzer).
Block next (for survivability, and to be userful on D), Sure Hands next, w/ KOR as capstone, and he's good to go. And, yes, pray for doubles to Blodge.
| Jamerson wrote: | | Also, another of my blitzers has dodge. Would not he be the better choice as a secondary ballcarrier or can blodge blitzers be developed in a different way? |
To make a Blitzer a ballcarrier means he's NOT taking Strength skills, and that makes for a weaker team. Orcs are all about Guard/MB/etc. - don't dilute that if you can avoid it.
| Jamerson wrote: | However, one piece of advice i was previously getting was to AVOID trolls 
...
My main worry is bumping my TV up too high with a Troll while I am still learning how best to play Orcs. |
I was going to say "rent to own", but...
This is a valid concern, but once you have the core skills on your BOB's (Block/Guard) and a skill or three on your Blitzers and some Linos, you're already swimming with the sharks, so a Guard Troll more than carries his weight.
And, with the money you have, you could hire one, see if you like him, and just let him go if you don't. Not like Orcs are usually tight on cash.
(With a blodger and a couple +Ag, a Goblin as a "backup ballcarrier" gets less attractive. But you could still get one (only), use him as a back-up player (13th?) when 2 are out of the game (or the LoS is just just too clawful for more valuable players), and skill him up - if he doesn't double or +Stat by 16, retire and try again.
And he's always there as the TTM threat, which is better as a threat than a tactic - but makes some oppo's worry, and that alone is a good thing.) |
Thanks. Really good advice
Also, it occoured to me that with my current Orc tactic of trying to simply smash my way through the middle of the opposition, and on to the TD zone, a Troll fits in quite well. He'll probably be surrounded by other Orcs too so he gets the assists for the really stupid rolls. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 01:00 |
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| Jamerson wrote: | | Thanks. Really good advice |
In the name of all the better coaches from whom I've learned what little game-wisdom I do know, I thank you.
I just try to put it all together so it makes sense. 
| Quote: | | (The Troll will) probably be surrounded by other Orcs too so he gets the assists for the really stupid rolls. |
It's important to keep a "babysitter" for him, 100%. Unless you're willing to either 1) let him sit there and do nothing (100% success, guaranteed!) or risk falling behind the play (and with MA 4, that's not always so much of an observable diff).
Also, even with the babysitter, if he's doing good work, then don't even try to move him. 1/6 fail is what it is. Stay disciplined, don't get greedy - if it's a potential drive-breaker, then just don't do it. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 01:13 |
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Troll has excellent cost/reward ratio.
Also... are you going to make a thread for every skill now? |
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Jamerson
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 01:36 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | Troll has excellent cost/reward ratio.
Also... are you going to make a thread for every skill now? |
I will if you say please |
_________________
"If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by."
I am a fixer. And my services are valued.
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 02:50 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | Also... are you going to make a thread for every skill now? |
Threads like these actually ask questions larger than just one skill on one player, questions that are not obvious to new(er) coaches (or sometimes even certain experienced coaches who shall go nameless).
Or can, if anyone bothers to address the larger, sometimes unasked questions.  |
_________________
Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 03:22 |
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| Jamerson wrote: | | Also, it occoured to me that with my current Orc tactic of trying to simply smash my way through the middle of the opposition, and on to the TD zone, a Troll fits in quite well. He'll probably be surrounded by other Orcs too so he gets the assists for the really stupid rolls. |
Just to be save, maybe add some basics about how to use a troll. As you deducted standing with him in a crowd is quite important. You should avoid actually blocking with him tho. Usually your opponent will have a big guy on his own or something else of decent strengh. His overall strengh on the other players will be lower. So the troll is basically just there to counteract that opponents center piece, ideally helping your other players out with guard to do actual blocks. The troll is more resilient so it doesn't matter if he takes some hits. The actual blocking with the troll should happen when you already moved everyone else and are about to finish your turn. But even then consider if you can afford for him to fail his stupidity roll.
In spite of his obvious disadvantages he is still well worth his cost since he can easily occupy a st4 player of almost similar cost or even consume two st3 players.
If you go up against st3 players you can sometimes add 2 assists to create a 3d block with only a 1/27 fail chance instead of 1/9 and maybe use him a bit earlier in turn.
But.. only do that if you have the player potential available and don't need it somewhere else. He's a cheap asset player. He doesn't need protection, he should be what your opponent has to take down before he can do something else. And ideally that should just be hard for your opponent.
Be aware of the trajectories of push backs and that you should have a player standing next to your troll at the beginning of your turn to not waste player ressources. |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 03:32 |
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Buy a troll. |
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notbobby125
Joined: Feb 28, 2013
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 05:29 |
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As other said before, agility four is pretty great. It's a shame it's not on a blitzer, but you take what you get. Having someone who can really reliably dodge, pick up the ball, get hand offs, and even throw it if all your plans fail is always nice to have. As long as he remains alive, I wouldn't buy any throwers, since he can now serve there function, and is more reliably at pick up the ball if you have a reroll handy. Block then sure hands, dodge on doubles.
As for getting the troll or not...
Positives: It gives you five above strength three players, something only four teams in the game can naturally match or surpass. While it can be foul bait, regeneration and nine armor actually makes him the best player to take player kicks and punches. You also don't have to worry about Really Stupid so much, since Orcs are very durable. On defense, the troll becomes an unmovable lump that will prevent the enemy from moving at all. The troll also opens up One turn touchdowns if you also get a goblin.
Negatives: It will go stupid at the worst times, and is not very good on offense. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 07:28 |
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My win rate with orcs
without troll 88%
with troll 58% |
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Macabeo
Joined: Feb 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 14:14 |
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I'd rather use the blitzer as the ball carrier because of his higher MA, although other coaches do have a point in that a +AG blitzer is an excellent sweeper. I would pass on the +AG, but I wouldn't criticize you if you took it.
Troll (wasn't there a thread about this already?): Trolls are excellent value for their cost, and are a must in other teams, but in Orc teams I don't think they are that good. For LOS duty the orc lineman is excellent (in my opinion much better than a zombie unless there's plenty of claw), having more linemen means that you have somebody to foul with (orcs have just too many viable positionals) and orcs already have plenty of strengh and S access. I wouldn't take it unless I'm in a very bashy league. |
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PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 14:47 |
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I never bought into the 'don't block with the troll' thing.
Fair enough if you can only get a 2d and you don't have block, but...
Losing his tackle zones one turn in every 6 is no reason to give up those 5 MB blocks, imo. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 15:05 |
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Depends what you want from the team. A Major win? Take +AG and buy a Troll. Farming wins? Pass on the AG and never buy a Troll. |
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Tarabaralla
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 15:17 |
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Buy a Troll as ballhandler |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Aug 30, 2014 - 15:38 |
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| bghandras wrote: | My win rate with orcs
without troll 88%
with troll 58% |
minmaxing much?
and your data point does not evidence make. |
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