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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 21:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:

Assuming you are talking about the orc vs wmds game, as I understand things that had nothing to do with the new scheduler system and would have been drawn in the old one as well. Your orc team has not played over the min max avoidance threashold yet (30 games I read somewhere?), it got pared because it was the closest match up available just like the old system I believe.
Strange, I thought there was something like a hard 150 tv diff lock before.. sure don't remember ever getting those matchups in the old days
JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 21:59 Reply with quote Back to top

It was 15%, rounding up.

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 22:03 Reply with quote Back to top

There was a tv cap as you say of 150 tv but this widened incrementally, iirc once you got over a certain amount (maybe 180tv?) It increased a bit say to 200 tv. I can't remember the exact numbers any more tbh. But I believe this was how it worked. It would be interesting to hear from christer on that to confirm or refute what I wrote?

Edit: what Jimmy put sounds correct actually, which is why the gap widens the higher tv you get. That would be 16% so possibly just outside a fair match up using the old system, but couldn't be sure. It's very very close either way.

Edit edit, orcs vs cpomb is a terrible racial match up anyway tbh, like dwarf zons etc...

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Dunenzed



Joined: Oct 28, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 22:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, it was a 15% cap as per this post.

edit: and this was the draw suitability scores. It suggests no games would have happened at this draw under the old scheduler.

edit edit: and the chaos v chaos pact would have occured if the proposed suitablity bonus included pact, and boosted the pairing by more that 122pts. Not sure of the formula, but I suspect even a 5% racial suitability bonus would have still resulted in the same pairings.


Last edited by Dunenzed on Oct 19, 2014 - 22:35; edited 1 time in total
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 22:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks Dunenzed , so your match up would have been just outside, but so close anyway a couple more skills and it would have been made but the result would most likely have been the same because of the racial mismatch.

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 22:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
because of the racial mismatch.


Pfft, I just had a bad start..

Although I don't really get it. The TV mismatch thing was never designed to schedule less favorable matchups. It would rather schedule teams with high TV diff if there was no other match available.

But that should be only possible after 30 games.
So if the limiter was removed regardless of the number of games played, what purpose does the 30 games limit have?
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 22:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Below 3 games played, max TV difference allowed is within 10%
For 3 to 9 games played, max TV difference allowed is within 15%
For 10 to 29 games played, max TV difference allowed is (15 + (games - 10) * 2)%
For 30 or more games, any opponent is allowed

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 23:07 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
Below 3 games played, max TV difference allowed is within 10%
For 3 to 9 games played, max TV difference allowed is within 15%
For 10 to 29 games played, max TV difference allowed is (15 + (games - 10) * 2)%


Ah thanks, I actually see this the first time. So the game was set at max diff of 19% and I made it with a percentage at just about 18%. Next time the threat level will be increased to 21%...

ok really gonna do some ranked for now..



Edit:
koadah wrote:
Below 3 games played, max TV difference allowed is within 10%

Hope this doesn't apply to sub 1000 TV teams..
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 19, 2014 - 23:14 Reply with quote Back to top

In practice it seems like that's the case - it is borderline impossible to get games if you go below 950 - but it seems that mostly is related to being crowded out by a more suitable match, not because no match can be made. The amount of times the scheduler whiffs with 4 coaches present is low.
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2014 - 10:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Someone asked for the numbers of games in Ranked too, so I made the same kind of chart for Ranked as for Blackbox earlier. And post them both for easy comparison.


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* after the latest big scheduler fix


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Note: I also did two strictly visual changes to my original Blackbox chart.
1. The area to the right of the percentage line, is the distribution for all teams playing at TV 2000-2500 and above (due to lower sample size). The exact same data is included in the original chart as well, the only difference is I stretched it out slightly to signify that the chart's not showing at 100 TV increments anymore.
2. The previous chart had races listed in order of most games at TV 1500+. I changed it to sort races by total number of Blackbox games at all TVs. The ranked chart is sorted slightly different however. It uses the same order as the Blackbox chart for easy comparison.



Percentage share of total games in each division.
Code:
          Blackbox  Ranked
Chaos        11 %   6 %
Chaos Dwarf   8 %   4 %
Nurgle        8 %   3 %
Human         7 %   6 %
Dwarf         6 %   4 %
Orc           6 %   7 %
Necromantic   6 %   5 %
Undead        5 %   5 %
Lizardmen     5 %   5 %
Skaven        4 %   6 %
Chaos Pact    4 %   4 %
Khemri        4 %   3 %
Dark Elf      3 %   7 %
Norse         3 %   5 %
Wood Elf      3 %   6 %
High Elf      2 %   4 %
Underworld    2 %   2 %
Ogre          2 %   2 %
Amazon        2 %   3 %
Vampire       2 %   3 %
Elf           2 %   3 %
Slann         2 %   3 %
Goblin        1 %   3 %
Halfling      1 %   2 %


Last edited by Balle2000 on Oct 20, 2014 - 18:43; edited 2 times in total
Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2014 - 10:33 Reply with quote Back to top

that box graph only tells two things:
1. Don't play box @ high TV.
2. Let none of my teams play more than 5-10 games.
dode74



Joined: Aug 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2014 - 13:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting that while people say it's hard to get high TV "big 3" games in R, the numbers are actually reasonably similar to other teams. I wonder why.

It would be interesting to look at the builds of those "big 3" box teams in box vs ranked. Average number of PO, MB, Claw, tackle etc at each TV band, particularly the higher ones - no idea if that's even possible. I those remain similar then it might be reasonable to suggest that what people do is go to B to play those 3 and R to play other teams.
Loew



Joined: Feb 02, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2014 - 17:12 Reply with quote Back to top

would it be easily possible to exclude the n most-played teams from these graphs?

I guess n=2 for nurgle would eliminate SlimeBarons and the Griefers, maybe that would be enough to make the nurgle part in the Box look less freakish
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2014 - 17:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Loew wrote:
would it be easily possible to exclude the n most-played teams from these graphs?

I guess n=2 for nurgle would eliminate SlimeBarons and the Griefers, maybe that would be enough to make the nurgle part in the Box look less freakish


Why would you do that? You still have to play those teams.

If we were talking about win/loss records it would be worth looking at. As we're talking about total games it probably isn't. Unless you are deciding who to ban. Twisted Evil

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DukeTyrion



Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2014 - 17:30 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
Loew wrote:
would it be easily possible to exclude the n most-played teams from these graphs?

I guess n=2 for nurgle would eliminate SlimeBarons and the Griefers, maybe that would be enough to make the nurgle part in the Box look less freakish


Why would you do that? You still have to play those teams.

If we were talking about win/loss records it would be worth looking at. As we're talking about total games it probably isn't. Unless you are deciding who to ban. Twisted Evil


I would certainly be interested in seeing the chart without the Barons & WMD's, especially as the Barons may well be taking a break in 87 games time.
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