SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
|
 Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 11:47 |
 
|
Good for you, you do well. |
_________________
   |
|
Brainsaw
Joined: Sep 27, 2005
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 12:00 |
|
well spoken harvestmouse. +1 from me here.
Lots of talk about League covering the houserule aspect.
IMHO League with houserules is the reason, why users dont quit fumbbl more than they do already.
League is mostly healthy and nice.
I ran the DFFL for quite some time, but still there are two major points about it:
1) its not ranked! ,-)
Ranked has tourneys. Ranked means you get to play ALL coaches, not only the league members.
Ranked is just playing a game for the fun of it or for teambuilding, but with this small touch of taking it seriously, because its ranked.
League is lacking all these aspects.
2) For me League lives and dies with the League community. And the League community was very much influenced by implementing the gamefinder.
Not that obvious, the gamefinder removed the need to join irc, which is very convenient for most users. But by removing the need to join IRC, it also weakened the community which is strongly influenced by chatting.
IRC as a chat platform always has been a bit too complex for a lot of coaches.
But the lack of a gamefinder forced users to use it and therefore we had some nice chats going on with a lot of people.
By this we even met at my place and had some private TT tourneys going on and we used to learn about each other.
This has decreased huge since the gamefinder exists.
I was thinking about proposing a autojoin chat function here on fumbbl, but felt it to be too much to discuss about beside my major concern here in this thread.
But League is not fumbbls big problem imho.
I would therefore like to direct the discussion back to the ranked divisions.
I am not "predicting" doom or anything. I try sticking to facts:
Statistics speak for themselves: https://fumbbl.com/p/stats?op=games&c=3
If you think about this statistic carefully, i would evaluate the situation and consider if its time do some change. I dont expect it to do it neccessarily my way, but it seems the time has come to do "something".
My thought by proposing the two divisions is to restrengthen the user base!
Reading this discussion I do miss arguments though, why and how the 2 divisons should be harmful?
What would be the harm to provide the coaches with the options how he finds a game and what ruleset he favors?
I think it would help fumbbl to rebuild the user base.
I am convinced the casual bb gamer really needs to get easy access to a game after his ruleset flavor. By providing the proposed 2 ranked divisions with automatchmaking option this would be given. |
|
|
PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 12:11 |
|
| SzieberthAdam wrote: | Nya-nya-nya-nya-nya!
Who wants to play BB against qualified opponents are in a good place.
Not the rules, not the divisions, winaholism and bloodlust are the only problems here. |
Good post! great attitude to have
and I agree Vampires need a buff  |
|
|
Joemanji
Joined: Jan 15, 2011
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 12:14 |
|
| SzieberthAdam wrote: | | Good for you, you do well. |
Actually, I match just about everyone apart from those teams I play [R] to avoid (Clawpombers, minmaxers, auto-OTS). And I avoid those not for fear of losing, but of playing a tedious game. But still I sometimes sit for two hours on Gamefinder waiting, and inevitably the coach who eventually says yes is not a Legend or Super-star but a Rookie or close by. So whilst I don't really feel like I am picking, I end up with the games a picker would choose anyway as so many others are. Odd situation. |
_________________
*This post may have been made without the use of a hat. |
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 12:29 |
|
| harvestmouse wrote: |
*@MatDakka. For every picker there's a griefer. |
Sorry but there are way more pickers in Ranked than griefers in Box, if you don't trust me try some Box games. Ranked pickers don't necessarily use heavy bash teams, that's the difference, although playing vs a Ranked super finely tuned elf team could be even more frustrating than being clawpombed by a clueless coach in Box.
| harvestmouse wrote: |
However, I wouldn't expect many pickers to want to use a scheduler though! |
Exactly, and this would actually split the division.
Merging the two division into one big division is pointless if people playing in it can choose two different ways of pairing (picking via gamefinder and blind matchmaking).
| harvestmouse wrote: |
You are also bending the blackbox philosophy to suit your agenda. Remember it's play anyone and anything at anytime! This includes pickers. |
What?! Are you serious?
I embrace the Box philosophy and playing anyone, anyhing anytime is fair as long as I'm playing vs somebody that used my same way of pairing, i.e. blind matchmaking.
Why should I play vs somebody that doesn't share my same philosophy and built a team through careful picking? |
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 12:45 |
|
| Dalfort wrote: | you cannot replicate the scheduler in League, Faction was tried in League soon after. The dodging was to some extent removed by relegation to a lower division, if you want a mix of R and B then the scheduling of F provides it... I am not saying some dodging will still not take place but if dodgers are dodged they fail and are removed too... if coaches play all their games they will be known for that and more games will be completed...
But I am saying no more than this as it is not my argument to change anything that Christer doesnt do himself, and then that is his decision to make. |
It is a long time ago but I thought that Faction was really just tiered Open RRs. The scheduling was brought in later in an attempt to save the division from dodging and cheating.
Even so, what is stopping you adding scheduling yourself? Even if it is just typing it in a text editor and pasting it into the group page.
If people really want to play it and someone is prepared to run it then it will run.
| harvestmouse wrote: | | The problem is you do have to arrange games, and a lot of coaches just can't be bothered with this. There are probably ranking issues with League too, however League requires a level of dedication beyond step 1 - casual gaming. |
If all people care about is getting a game immediately then Ranked & Box are the divisions for them.
Don't expect too much to change there though as people are going to bitch and whine about every change that Christer tries to make. Basically, to get your games quickly you need a lot of people. The more people you have the less likely it is that they will agree about anything.
| Brainsaw wrote: | ...
My thought by proposing the two divisions is to restrengthen the user base!
Reading this discussion I do miss arguments though, why and how the 2 divisons should be harmful?
What would be the harm to provide the coaches with the options how he finds a game and what ruleset he favors?
I think it would help fumbbl to rebuild the user base. |
The two divisions are harmful because they are splitting the user base in a worse way than it is split now.
1. How many people will want your house rules? Many people will want house rules but not the ones that are agreed.
2. Most house rules that have been proposed are not different enough from CRP to warrant two divisions that are otherwise identical.
3. Christer has said no merging divisions and no house rules in the main two divisions for this idea is dead.
4. Christer has told us which steps he intends to take to try to improve the Box.
5. Christer is putting a lot of effort into enhancing [L]eague.
6. Christer has made code available so that people who are interested can look at enhancing the gamefinder.
I am pretty surprised that you cannot elf ball in Ranked. If there are too many bashers in Ranked then I don't think adding a scheduler will help.  |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 13:16 |
|
|
JMkiller
Joined: Jun 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 13:21 |
|
Is there league like OCC? Huge league with lot of divisions and progress based gameplay? |
_________________
�Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.�
? Arthur C. Clarke |
|
Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 13:30 |
|
| JMkiller wrote: | | Is there league like OCC? Huge league with lot of divisions and progress based gameplay? |
how big is OCC? |
|
|
JMkiller
Joined: Jun 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 13:46 |
|
| Roland wrote: | | JMkiller wrote: | | Is there league like OCC? Huge league with lot of divisions and progress based gameplay? |
how big is OCC? |
Around 250 Players |
_________________
�Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.�
? Arthur C. Clarke |
|
Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 13:56 |
|
| JMkiller wrote: | | Roland wrote: | | JMkiller wrote: | | Is there league like OCC? Huge league with lot of divisions and progress based gameplay? |
how big is OCC? |
Around 250 Players |
then no...
biggest Europe based leagues are WIL (59) and OBBA (59) |
|
|
Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 14:10 |
|
The World Championship Series had more than 70 coaches, I think, but is currently struggling to revive itself after a break of one year. |
_________________
.
 |
|
JMkiller
Joined: Jun 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 14:15 |
|
I think Leagues are pretty strange place for new players, for example i have more then 500 games and still i didnt join any league, not because i dont want to, but because ranked is much easier for me to find game.
Or maybe we need more tournaments, because i see that when ever a tourney is nearby, a lot of "new" teams apear in game finder  |
_________________
�Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.�
? Arthur C. Clarke |
|
Joemanji
Joined: Jan 15, 2011
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 14:22 |
|
League was the thing that drove me away from this site (commitment pressures, and a couple of times having to turn down real life social opportunities as I had a game scheduled, only to get home and have a no-show) and also the thing that drew me back (new smaller league set up as a way to play with friends I don't see as much since I moved). Strange. |
_________________
*This post may have been made without the use of a hat. |
|
sonrises
Joined: May 02, 2013
|
| Posted:
Oct 31, 2014 - 14:32 |
|
@Joemanji
Play Open Leagues like ALL STARS & OLC. No commitment.
And now and again, join a KO League tourney, like ALL STARS TOURNAMENTS or OLC Cup.
And plenty of House Rules for the same price.
Fummbbl has options for almost anyone. Things to solve? sure there are. |
|
|
|
|
| |
Conceding v Goblins/...
Search
