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Kryten



Joined: Sep 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2014 - 18:12
FUMBBL Staff
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Roland wrote:
Is there some kind of limit to the treasury? I mean sometimes it's necessary to have a few loners + cash if expensive positionals die...
This is the PM I send out to coaches about Journeymen:

Hi,

I'm one of the Security Officers on Fumbbl. It came to my attention that you've got a team with a pile of cash and not rostering 11 permanent players.

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=xxx

You're in violation of the rules, quoted here:

"Teams in competitive divisions are expected to strive for at least 11 players on the roster. While this doesn't mean that any team below 11 players must immediately hire a new lineman, coaches are expected to not let the team deteriorate on purpose."

You may ask where that line is - we expect that you can save up some amount of money toward new players, but if you find yourself with 200-300k+, then we expect you'll be hiring some players toward the requirement of 11 permanent players.

Please ask if you have any questions.

Regards,

Kryten
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2014 - 18:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Jesus!

Why not just add some of that text to actual rule?

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Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 20:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Because the moment you try to tightly define a rule, it becomes easier to abuse.

By keeping it vague, it gives the Admin flexibility, and so better "justice" without worrying about technicalities. Coaches that understand "the spirit" of the rule (at least, in the same way the Admin does) will (more or less) conform - coaches that don't tend to stand out in a crowd, and borderline cases can be judged based on their past track record in general.

At least, that's how I'd see it.

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(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...)
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 20:15 Reply with quote Back to top

yeah. the guidelines work well for 99% of coaches, and I assume the occasional newbie that get's one of K's messages soon joins that 99%.

the other 1%? well, I care not about them and their powergaming, rule-lawyering ways.

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Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 20:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Kill all lawyerz.

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Let's go A.P.E.!

(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...)
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 20:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Smeat wrote:
Because the moment you try to tightly define a rule, it becomes easier to abuse.

By keeping it vague, it gives the Admin flexibility, and so better "justice" without worrying about technicalities. Coaches that understand "the spirit" of the rule (at least, in the same way the Admin does) will (more or less) conform - coaches that don't tend to stand out in a crowd, and borderline cases can be judged based on their past track record in general.

At least, that's how I'd see it.


I think that is a load of crap to be honest.
Kryten just told us what the rule is.

I suspect that people are struggling with agile teams due to playing it "too safe".

But hey, I don't see carrying 300k to be 'abuse' anyway. Wink

Let's just encourage people to go CPOMB. It's way easier.

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Smeat



Joined: Nov 19, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 22:02 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
I think that is a load of crap to be honest.

If you believe that, then you've never studied "law". Nor tried to write a set of "clear, iron-tight rules" for something that is not necessarily black-and-white.

Because the moment you think you can make something black-and-white, someone will come up with a new shade of grey - in fact, some people seem to feel that's it's a personal challenge to do so. Rolling Eyes


Quote:
Kryten just told us what the rule is.

Now that is a true load of crap. Because he didn't, not remotely.

He told us what the Admin's loose policy is, a rough rule-of-thumb that they go by - or don't, depending on the situation.

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Let's go A.P.E.!

(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...)
JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 22:07 Reply with quote Back to top

This rule is a true load of crap.
I would object to it but it doesn't affect my buff rowdy teams, it just hampers agility teams for no apparent reason.

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harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 22:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Around in circles again. You are not consulted when it's applied, so how do you know?

If you take let's say an Undead team and a Wood Elf team there situation could never be comparable, and the amount of cash they need is also not comparable. This just one reason why there is no fixed amount.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 22:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Smeat wrote:
koadah wrote:
I think that is a load of crap to be honest.

If you believe that, then you've never studied "law". Nor tried to write a set of "clear, iron-tight rules" for something that is not necessarily black-and-white.

Because the moment you think you can make something black-and-white, someone will come up with a new shade of grey - in fact, some people seem to feel that's it's a personal challenge to do so. Rolling Eyes


Quote:
Kryten just told us what the rule is.

Now that is a true load of crap. Because he didn't, not remotely.

He told us what the Admin's loose policy is, a rough rule-of-thumb that they go by - or don't, depending on the situation.


Policy which some know and some don't. That is hardly fair IMO.

You are actually better off pushing the rules to limits so that you can get the word from Kryten. That or trawl through the forums.

Ah well, we're all right Jack.

harvestmouse wrote:
Around in circles again. You are not consulted when it's applied, so how do you know?

If you take let's say an Undead team and a Wood Elf team there situation could never be comparable, and the amount of cash they need is also not comparable. This just one reason why there is no fixed amount.


Kryten's post does not give a fixed amount.

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 22:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Smeat wrote:
koadah wrote:
I think that is a load of crap to be honest.

If you believe that, then you've never studied "law". Nor tried to write a set of "clear, iron-tight rules" for something that is not necessarily black-and-white.

I did both of that and I agree with koadah...
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 22:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes........

I think I need to step out of these circular debates. They go nowhere. I really don't see the point in bringing up the same arguments again and again and getting the same conclusions.

1. Nobody can agree.
2. The rules aren't going to change.
3. Fuels arguments for the next debate.
JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 22:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Well going by those points, there probably shouldn't be a forum at all Smile

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 23:10 Reply with quote Back to top

well, if there is one thing I like about computers is that you can't tell them with the rules: "ah well, just wing it"....
..yet anyways...
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2014 - 23:10 Reply with quote Back to top

harvestmouse wrote:
Yes........

I think I need to step out of these circular debates. They go nowhere. I really don't see the point in bringing up the same arguments again and again and getting the same conclusions.

1. Nobody can agree.
2. The rules aren't going to change.
3. Fuels arguments for the next debate.


Smeat brought it back after two weeks dead.

Burn the witch! Mr. Green

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