| Poll |
| Is CLAWPOMB really a problem? |
| Yes, absolutley |
|
55% |
[ 464 ] |
| No, Chaos Dwarfs Disagree |
|
20% |
[ 174 ] |
| Still Haven't Decided |
|
8% |
[ 75 ] |
| Pie! |
|
15% |
[ 127 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 840 |
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
 Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 15:10 |
 
|
that was the intention of CRP anyway, to prevent teams becoming too high TV... the way they did it was CPOMB, which was a ham fisted approach. I don't think it would destroy high TV personally. I just think it would make it more interesting and diverse. However inducements would need a nerf to implement this change otherwise people would sit low and abuse them. |
_________________
 |
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 16:13 |
|
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | I am considering it, I have thought about it quite a lot, 2 guards on each team, dwarves come off worse, the only reason they are good atm is because they spam guard and MB on every single player they have. At rookie level dwarves are at their worst, they are incredibly slow and not great at bashing. Having 2 mobile guard on every team vs 2 static guard on the dwarf team and the dwarves come off worse every time. their lack of Ma really impacts them badly. also what skills would you take with dwarf linemen now? |
At rookie level Dwarfs still do great in TT tourneys. I think you are under estimating how much everyone else would hurt not having Block! But having said that the 2 Legend Chaos team looks pretty strong haha. |
Do they do great in TT touneys? I'm not sure they do really? I'm not saying they would be terrible or anything, but I don’t rate them very highly at rookie level.
Also everyone would have enough block coverage really…
(not counting big guys)
Norse - whole team
humans - 6
orcs - 6
Amazon - 6 (though would rather delete team  )
undead - 4(maybe 6 if you count mummies in the BG exemtion rule)
khmeri - 4(maybe 8 if you count TGs in the BG exemtion rule)
skaven - 4
Dark Elf - 6
Pro elf - 4
High elf - 4
Wood Elf - 4
Vamp, Lizard, Chaos and nurgz - 2
Stunty teams exempt from rule
Plus all these teams could have 2 Wrestle. I don't think it would be a problem really. lizard Chaos and nurgz having 4 is perfectly manageable, as would vamp, most vamps only have 4 in a team anyway. I think teams would retain their character a little more, the ubiquity of blodge seriously detracts from the flavour of teams.
I would love to play with this rule in black box actually. I think it would make the game a hell of a lot more interesting. As I said though, inducements would need to nerfed a fair bit. |
_________________
Last edited by Garion on %b %31, %2015 - %17:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
|
bigGuy
Joined: Sep 21, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 16:35 |
|
Yea, but you cannot predict doubles/stat rolls. So this would lead rampant minmaxing and retirement of healthy players "to open" skill spot. |
|
|
NerdBird
Joined: Apr 08, 2014
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 16:49 |
|
I actually think fluff wise Garion's idea is spot on. Think about real football or any sport for that matter. You don't have a whole football team of quarterbacks, in soccer a whole team of goalie's or in basketball a whole team of forwards. You have a balanced approach with specialists divvied about the team.
However, I don't think this would appeal to a lot of coaches that want to "build" a team the way they want. Teams like all lineman teams and other weird builds would be rather restricted. And it probably would promote minmaxing even more. Chaos and Nurgle would shoot for those 2 massive cpombers and keep everyone else near rookie level or with just a few supportive skills.
I like the idea of players aging and reaching an apex in their career though and would love to test it out with some great coaches at playing and building. Clearly I am not an expert!  |
_________________
 |
|
LucaAnt
Joined: Apr 24, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 16:56 |
|
| Garion wrote: | | Amazon - 6 (though would rather delete team ) |
All this hate for them, i honestly don't get it.  |
|
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 17:00 |
|
Yeah the problem again is with people being lame min maxers again I guess. It could be got round by banning player retirement, or making some rule about having to pay them off to leave or something. But I guess people wouldnt like that. |
_________________
|
|
happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 17:57 |
|
I like your idea Garion, it is interesting. However, not everyone would have enough: Slann would be totally screwed by this rule. It's hard to feel sorry for chaos and nurgle because they can do fun things with mutations, but Slann? Are you also just ditching Slann as a roster because you hate them or is this just a slip up that they are not on the chart.  |
_________________
Come join us in #metabox, the Discord channel for HLP, ARR, and E.L.F. in the box!
 |
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 18:08 |
|
I did forget about the 3 new teams
but I don't think they would be screwed 2 block, 2 wrestle, 2 dodge, and potentially some big guy doubles.
its not too shabby, you would just need more re-rolls. I don't think it be much different to how they stand now in terms of their standing among other races, they would still be able to leap everywhere. their blitzers would also get 10k knocked off their price tag anyway.
I think it would make all the teams play more how they were intended tbh. The ubiquity of block is dull and removal of traits and ageing has just made every team too similar.
You have elves.
You have cpomb mega death
You have everyone else.
and some stunty coolness
I just think it would make the game a hell of a lot more interesting if you had to build players in very new ways. Maybe stick a few more skills in there, make juggernaut work on blocks or something to help out a bit.
Its just a new born idea but I think it would make for a better starting point than everyone can have all the skills they want.
Another way to go about things would be restrict skill access by breaking the skills down in to far more catagories. So only certain players could ever have block or dodge, even on doubles, and so on..... |
_________________
Last edited by Garion on %b %31, %2015 - %18:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
|
delusional
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 18:08 |
|
I like the idea of limiting Block to certain positional players. Lets face it some skills are Way overpowered (ie Block, Dodge) and some way underpowered Like passblock, VLL, etc.
So you see people start to pick their skills, and it goes like:
Block,
Guard
MB/PO
Better to weaken the skills that are overpicked and let coaches make players have more variety.
Hence going back to CPOMB, what a dumb way of ensuring team attrition. Not every team has even access to this stack. |
|
|
happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 18:20 |
|
Yeah, I can see it being a different playing field, but I think vamps and slann in particular get hurt but really needing every last RR and skill RR. Both of those teams have eat RR and start with no block or dodge.
Though I hadn't seen messing with the roster. If you start knocking the price of blitzers down that helps some. Still, what about a progressive spin on it: T1 teams limit is 2. T2 teams limit is 3 (allowing vamps slann and the less good other folks some relief), Tier 3 is unlimited (stunties). This would be fun to try in a league sometime. Suddenly there is a reason to have 3 Big Guy pact again! \o/
EDIT: Also, Minos on a Chaos team. |
_________________
Come join us in #metabox, the Discord channel for HLP, ARR, and E.L.F. in the box!
|
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 18:28 |
|
maybe it would hit them too hard, but you could make adjustments to the rosters if they are too weak, I think I agree with vamps, Slann i honestly think will be ok, they need that 10k blitzer price drop regardless.
I wouldnt like to do things by tiers tbh. But there are other ways to restrict skills, that could work. |
_________________
|
|
Fabulander
Joined: Oct 11, 2014
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 18:37 |
|
I don't think - wait - actually I'm pretty sure the rosters aren't designed to make do without certain skills in the long run. I like that you are thinking outside the box, but this would require soooo many exceptions and erratas. I think. Of course, it might be perfect from the get go 
If more control with player development is needed, another possibility is making actual skill trees for player types, RPG style. This would be one way of limiting certain combos to fewer players or shut off too fast/easy developments for particularly nasty types.
Then again, I personally still prefer the simple and fairly open system that Blood Bowl has now, and feel that any fix should be made in that context. To each his own. |
|
|
fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 18:51 |
|
| delusional wrote: | | Better to weaken the skills that are overpicked and let coaches make players have more variety. |
Yes I agree with this. So you split Block / Wrestle into off and def, split Dodge / Tackle into dodge and defense, split Mighty Blow into armour and injury, introduce a counter for Guard, and renegotiate Piling On. Compact the SPP scale and extend to 7 skills to 176 to compensate for the longer development path.
Practically speaking this might mean instead of Block/Tackle, Dwarf Blockers might get Block(def) and Tackle(anti-dodge) only, Norse Linemen get Block(off) only, Amazons get Dodge(def) only, Flesh Golems might start with Block(def), etc.
For killstack you place Mighty Blow(armour) in General so everyone has access. You give this skill to Mummies and Tomb Guardians to start instead of MB. Mighty Blow proper stays in the game as Extraordinary, available only to Big Guys, making them the best in the game at doing damage, because they can still take Mighty Blow(injury) on normals and it stacks. Piling On gets a Strength Advantage effect (the bigger the strength difference the more reliable and/or better they kill) [Edit], but is less reliable and potentially dangerous if Strength is not high and/or you roll poorly. [/edit] You make Claw available to non-Big Guys via a doubles roll by placing a version of it (Shiv) in a new category, Cheating, and attaching a chance of getting kicked out when used (doubles on armour or injury). Certain Big Guys get Impervious (E), rendering Claw/Shiv useless against them. And you make an Injury roll only on natural 10-12 -- on a modified 10+ it's auto-BH.
For fouling you place a new fouling skill in the Cheating category: +1 Injury. This is the natural doubles for Dirty Players, and normal access for most stunties. Sneaky Git becomes a simple 4+ save to roll again (Pro for fouling), used whenever the ref blows the whistle on you (except Secret Weapon). Note that this makes Sneaky Git valuable for killers with the Cheating version of Claw (Shiv). Piling On perhaps also works with fouling.
The new Cheating category has a laundry list of other tricksy skills that most players (except Big Guys) can take on doubles, including Diving, Kneecap, Trip, Turtle, etc., most of which can get you kicked out but level the strength advantage somewhat for the likes of Goblins.
There are other bits and pieces (new skills, positionals, etc.) to my master plan for comprehensively revamped house rules. Just need playtesters, hehe. I'll put it all together in a PDF one of these days. To no effect I'm sure but that's OK. |
|
|
NerdBird
Joined: Apr 08, 2014
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 20:50 |
|
|
bigGuy
Joined: Sep 21, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 31, 2015 - 21:12 |
|
What is the problem? That top clawpombers lived 200+ games? Most top elves (except top HE with 6x-AV in second list) played less than 100 games. |
|
|
|
|
| |
BB2020 - Kick team m...
Search
