ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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 Posted:
Feb 01, 2015 - 05:39 |
 
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| zakatan wrote: | | Blood bowl is a game of specialization, and versatile teams are too difficult to figure out for some coaches. That doesn't make them boring. If the positional structure of the roster doesn't tell you how to play the team and this frightens you, then it's not a design flaw. Just a player limitation. |
I love how you're spinning high elves' utter facelessness as "versatility."
Yeah, sure, building a high elf team "frightens" me. If it "frightens" anyone else, here, let me help you. Dodge, block, dodge, block, block, dodge, dodge. Once you get to mid-TV, maybe something exotic, like tackle.
And yes, giving high elves more blitzers alone wouldn't make them not boring. It would make them exactly as boring as if dark elves were coached by someone who just took blitzers and linemen. Which we all know happens, but at least dark elves can be built as their own thing. That boring dark elf team is high elves. It's the only thing they can be. Dodge, dodge, block. |
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Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.)
Last edited by ahalfling on %b %01, %2015 - %05:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Feb 01, 2015 - 05:40 |
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what's wrong with great potential? |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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Feb 01, 2015 - 05:44 |
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great potential is great.
Just not as appealing as witch elves.
Or wardancers.
Or badass catchers wearing hockey masks.
Why should i play HE when i have all those alternatives which all have their unique-ness, while a HE roster is plain? |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Feb 01, 2015 - 05:48 |
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ok well i see no point in discussing here 
I'll just look at your signature and smile |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Feb 01, 2015 - 07:24 |
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Well, yeah. That's my point -- I've won with passing orcs on TT. I've done okay with them here too, because orcs are a roster that you can build in a number of ways. I've got a 16-8-7 chaos team right now with a negative CAS differential, because versatility.
Barring doubles, the vast majority of a high elf roster doesn't make a real skill choice until 31 SPP. Well, unless you count "block first, or dodge first and then block?" as real.
And the kicker is, every player on that team builds the same way. It's not just that block-dodge-block-dodge-block-block-dodge is the decision, because most rosters have some players where that's the case. It's that it's the same decision for the whole team. It doesn't make them not cookie-cutter if some of the cookies have +2 MA and less armor.
And we'll go back to orcs, because orc blitzers are a great example. If you coach orcs and you're smart, you'll design your blitzers differently, some as killers, some as scorers, some to sack the carrier, some to assist the BOBs on the line. They can take guard, tackle, mighty blow, frenzy... and they often do as soon as 6 SPP. Skill choice gets even more varied after that. Which is, you know, that "versatility" you were talking about. The thing a conveyor belt of block-dodge-dodge is the opposite of.
Even an orc lineman -- and this is the only time you'll hear me praising orc linemen -- will take block/wrestle, kick, dirty player... but high elf catchers? High elf linemen? Every single one of them develops exactly the same way until mid-TV. Maybe a blitzer gets tackle, maybe you give one guy kick, and there are a few ways to build the thrower. But other than that, it's rubber-stamping the same two skills onto the entire roster, one size fits all, no specialization needed or allowed.
High elf skill selection makes Amazon skill selection look dynamic... at least Amazons have choices at 16.
And here's the thing... if for some reason you like that kind of colorless slog? You can do it. You can play a blitzers-and-linos-only dark elf team. You can play pro elves, but pro elves are more interesting. If you already have those options, high elves offer nothing except some slightly different-looking pixels. |
_________________
Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 01, 2015 - 09:01 |
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| DrPoods wrote: | | What's Wrong With High Elves?? |
They are crap. |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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Feb 01, 2015 - 09:31 |
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I don't disagree with you, ahalfling, but a big part of the problem is that there are no appropriate skills to uniqueify them with. What they really need is a new skill that typifies their playing style. "Stand and fight" Blitzers... How about Goad: player may force blocking opponent to follow up. Masters of the air game... Inspiring: for every completed Pass of distance Long or greater, team gains a re-roll. etc.
Some unique skills, plus some dumbing-down of existing no-brainers (Dodge), would do the game some good, and would allow teams and players to be customized in more interesting ways. |
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Stonetroll
Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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Feb 01, 2015 - 09:35 |
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The team is fine, only thing needed to make them interesting is the coach... |
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NerdBird
Joined: Apr 08, 2014
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Mar 04, 2015 - 17:54 |
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I am going to bring this old topic back around...
So my Box high elves are on a downward spiral. I have lost 8 out of my last 10 and the amount of SPP's I get are minimal. I am maintaining a pretty high TV for an elf box team but, again, I have lost 8 out of my last 10 games. I know we all have streaks of bad games but I am about ready to jump ship and quit playing high elves....
I would just hope I can be competitive but most of my games are over by turn 4 or 5 of the first half and I begrudgingly click the mouse for the rest of the game.... Which is why I bumped up to 13 players but now the games are even tougher. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Mar 04, 2015 - 18:01 |
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Your team shows great potential. One example: The thrower has great stats, but vulnerable on defense until develops blodge. Almost every 2nd player is like that.
They are TV bloat at the moment, but can develop into great team.
With that said you can expect losses until the team either develops, or gets rid of those players. It is your choice if you have the nerves to pull it. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Mar 04, 2015 - 18:21 |
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3 strength 4 is cool, but as BG mentions there is some bloat right now as for example S4 isn't so good on a carrier if the player has none of block, wrestle or dodge. If your team eventually gets a +AG and then leap, along with a few more skills you will have some real good tools with both strong, blocking players and a sacker.
You do play mostly Dwarfs so maybe some tactics adjustment is also needed? |
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mikere
Joined: Apr 08, 2010
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Mar 04, 2015 - 21:31 |
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So what are the tactics adjustment required for High Elves? I expect they will delay a lot differently than bashy teams (I haven't figured this one out yet). I've heard that they are more of a running team than a passing team unless you develop them to pass and catch, but again, the finer points of this have evaded me so far.
Some of the things I know I do wrong with High Elves are:
- on defense, I tend to rush too many players into the opponents side trying to pressure the ball.
- I really don't understand how to run the offense all that well.
- I'm sure there's more... |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Mar 05, 2015 - 15:38 |
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| NerdBird wrote: | I am going to bring this old topic back around...
So my Box high elves are on a downward spiral. I have lost 8 out of my last 10 and the amount of SPP's I get are minimal. I am maintaining a pretty high TV for an elf box team but, again, I have lost 8 out of my last 10 games. I know we all have streaks of bad games but I am about ready to jump ship and quit playing high elves....
I would just hope I can be competitive but most of my games are over by turn 4 or 5 of the first half and I begrudgingly click the mouse for the rest of the game.... Which is why I bumped up to 13 players but now the games are even tougher. |
Well your problem is bloat.
I think 13 players is appropriate, but you're running 7 positional players... that's just too many. You've also taken 3 strength upgrades.
Replace two positionals (likely the thrower and one of the catcher) with linemen. I'd probably fire the -ma ST4 lineman and seriously consider if the 150k black orc with mighty blow or the 160k thrower without block or dodge is an asset either.
Basically gut the team of all of it's flavor and build boring. |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Mar 05, 2015 - 15:49 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: |
Basically gut the team of all of it's flavor and build boring. |
It's sad what the TV system made... TR had its flaws, but punishing good rolls wasn't one of them. |
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PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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Mar 05, 2015 - 16:08 |
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Gnomes are trash
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