koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 18:34 |
 
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| Kam wrote: |
I do understand you like to play some types of games better than others. But Ranked is not your private toy. Again, the way you play (note: I'm talking in general here: I haven't watched or checked your games) impacts the environment, and creates a toxic one. But the great thing with FUMBBL is you can still play as you want, you could even play against yourself if that's what you're after. The place for that is called "League". |
I don't see what point you are making. If anything there is less picking in [L]eague if only because there are fewer games on offer and you have to take what you can get. 
We don't have to play Ranked they way that you want it. We don't have to play Ranked at all.
If people don't want to play your teams that is their choice. There appears to be plenty of games in Ranked for people to take.
Why would I want to play vs a no PO orc team anyway? That is not a 'proper' orc team.
Proper orcs pile on.  |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Mar 31, 2015 - 18:44 |
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Best part of those numbers... how low Amazons and Chaos Dwarves are in number of ranked games.
Amazons are so boring to play, and play against that I do believe that literally the only reason to play them is to exploit how broken they are against your average TV1000 team.
Chaos Dwarves, in their 1350-1500tv clawpombing sweetspot are also so clearly broken against the other teams at that same level that they rarely, if ever are played in R.
Orcs are the most popular team in ranked, despite being a clear bash team. Could it be that Ranked players don't mind playing against bash teams without killstack?
Another interesting observation is the number of Chaos games played in R. It's amusing to watch players attempt to build a monster ranked Chaos team, losing games all the way to 1500TV, only to learn that they no longer get games when their team is actually effective. The 5th most popular team no less! Those silly bashers never seem to learn. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Mar 31, 2015 - 18:47 |
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Dataset Request:
Matchups by race in Ranked and Blackbox. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 18:50 |
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I'm not saying there is more or less picking in L. I'm simply saying you can do what you want in League. You can start an all Goblin group for instance, and only play against Goblins. And there is nothing wrong with that.
And my point is simply that the freedom call "I do what I want, who are you to tell me what to do?" is just as mature as a kid refusing to say "thanks" when his mother's asking him. Politeness is a freedom-killer. Yeah. But that's also a way to maintain social bonds.
My point is the way you play (or pick games for that matter) in a division is not neutral. It has consequences on how and what the other coaches will play as well.
But yeah, it's probably just me... But I'm sick and tired of all that non-sense. Count me out. I have one more celebration game to play, I guess that will be the last one before a long time. There's no point in arguing or trying to convince coaches who don't give a damn. |
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GLN 17 is out!
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Brainsaw
Joined: Sep 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 19:38 |
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Obviously there are Coaches who understand the Connection between ClawPOMB and Picking and some do NOT. ,-)
| Wizfall wrote: | Easy one.
The win% in which the games are mostly played on Fumbbl
so in respective order R, B, L and eventually Tournament Cool |
This would be ok, IF all the Coaches playing had the same coaching skill!
And the Data to be perfect they all had to play the same Number of Games against all other Races.
Then you could see the individual Races Potential compared to the others.
But what would you learn from it in regard of Picking or Ruleset Flaws?
You could identify a single Racial Problem, but as several Races share the same concepts, you wouldnt learn much of it.
However the major tourneys win% do reflect that way better (still not perfectly), as the Coaching Skill influences the chance of Progressing in the Tourney.
With every game played the Density of high Coaching Skill gets narrower and therefore increasing the Data Quality.
So in the imperfect Environment we get our Data from, the Major Tourneys are by far the best ones to get SOME relevant Data.
As mentioned: This all is only true, as long as you see a broad racial Distribution with different play concepts with almost even winning Chances desirable! |
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 19:44 |
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| Leilond wrote: | As you can see if you look at my matches, I play sometimes in Ranked and sometimes in black box, depending on what type of match I want to play.
The two environment are strongly connected. I love the box, I love the idea, I love the concept. But there are 5 bashers every 6 teams, and every now and then I need some different match types. It's not a matter of win or lose (I win more in the box than in ranked), care of pixel or not. It's a matter of getting bored to match dwarf, then dwarf, then Chaos Dwarf, then Chaos Pact and so on, so on, so on... for 10 games without a damn elf or skaven, or slann, or other DIFFERENT teams
It's a matter of DIFFERENTIATE. I pick in ranked because it is THE ONLY WAY I'VE TO PLAY, every now and then, a match against a slann, or an Halfling... and I lose more than I win, but I have some FUN
The two environment are strongly connected. If you do not solve the spamming of basher in the box, I won't stop picking in ranked, for sure... and I won't stop to intoxicate ranked environment, until basher do not stop to intoxicate the black box environment.
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Ok, playing devils advocate here. I had a look at the first page of your last matches. Yep, it does show a range of R and B.
However your opponents in the 15 box games were...
1 x pact (granted, marauder min-maxed)
1 x Orc
2 x flings
1 x delf
1 x CD
2 x norse
3 x humans
4 x woodies
That's pretty varied for the box right?
I am sure, however, that this would possibly not run right through the box games.
Maybe I just took too small a sample of games. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 20:21 |
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| Throweck wrote: |
That's pretty varied for the box right?
I am sure, however, that this would possibly not run right through the box games.
Maybe I just took too small a sample of games. |
He has mainly young teams so you can expect a fair amount of variety early on.
I think he's over egging it but it will get nastier later on.
| Kam wrote: |
My point is the way you play (or pick games for that matter) in a division is not neutral. It has consequences on how and what the other coaches will play as well.
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They can play how they like. Ranked does the most games so it must be doing something right.
Maybe that something is that coaches can get the games that they like.
You sound as though you want Ranked to be like a league. It isn't. It is a huge open division. Most people play casually.
| Kam wrote: |
But yeah, it's probably just me... But I'm sick and tired of all that non-sense. Count me out. I have one more celebration game to play, I guess that will be the last one before a long time. There's no point in arguing or trying to convince coaches who don't give a damn. |
It is what it is. Take it or leave it.
You could try League. Or even Box. |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 20:31 |
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Koadah, is the race vs. race stats are those both R and B? or just blackbox?
How much effort would it take to duplicate the race vs race for ranked? |
Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %31, %2015 - %20:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 20:32 |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 20:33 |
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| koadah wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: | | Koadah, on the race vs. race stats are those both R and B? or just one? |
Just B. |
Beat my edit!
Would it be a lot of work to mock the same script up for Ranked? |
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 20:35 |
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| koadah wrote: | | Throweck wrote: |
That's pretty varied for the box right?
I am sure, however, that this would possibly not run right through the box games.
Maybe I just took too small a sample of games. |
He has mainly young teams so you can expect a fair amount of variety early on.
I think he's over egging it but it will get nastier later on.
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I agree with you K. It can get brutal when it gets to high tv. The knights of the last order know that only too well!
I have been reading this most of the day as I don't really enter forums other than give silly responses or say 'boobies'. But this has spiked my interest.
Man, I guess I am a picker. Recently R gets my goat a little as my elves get offered by the bashers but the same coaches won't accept a switch on that offer. I am guilty of that too deep down.
R is used for many different reasons. Tourney prep, fun, getting you CR up, fun/themed teams, etc.
Ultimately in terms of picking are we talking newbies? A good majority of the site are 'aware' of the picking that goes on and either avoids it or ticks that offer. If you tick that offer, what is there to complain about? Research team/opponent if it matters that much to you.
Box, I love it and I hate it. We can whine about cpomb till the bull centaurs come home but it isn't going to change in the near future so either play there and embrace it or stop whining (what image does it give to the newbies?). Constructive discussion, absolutely welcomed.
We have a free site that we can play our hobby on! It offers something for everyone imo. If it doesn't, there is always cyanide *rolls eyes at the thought* |
Last edited by Throweck on %b %31, %2015 - %20:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 20:36 |
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Yeah, don't worry, I'm leaving it.
Seriously, guys like Brainsaw have been trying to make pixel hugging something cool and I'm the jerk for simply saying extreme picking is lame... Got it.
But since you have that kind of reasoning, you should also tell the ARR guy to quit trying to change the Box... "It is what it is, take it or leave it".
o/ |
_________________
GLN 17 is out!
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 20:38 |
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| Kam wrote: | | I'm the jerk for simply saying extreme picking is lame... |
Nah, I agree with that (not you being a Jerk!). There are extreme pickers out there. |
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Leilond
Joined: Jan 02, 2012
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 21:37 |
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| Kam wrote: | Yeah, don't worry, I'm leaving it.
Seriously, guys like Brainsaw have been trying to make pixel hugging something cool and I'm the jerk for simply saying extreme picking is lame... Got it.
But since you have that kind of reasoning, you should also tell the ARR guy to quit trying to change the Box... "It is what it is, take it or leave it".
o/ |
I blame the box because it force me to pick in ranked. My idea is that the bad attitude of middle to high TV is ruining BOTH the divisions.
But I usually blame it alone, thinking about it. I do not go over the forum opening topics about how bad black box is. I simply try to explain to those who think that picking in ranking has nothing to do with black box, that the two divisions are hardly interconnected and that I PICK because it is the only way to play a match with a slann, while if I want to play VS dwarf, I simply apply to the box and in no more than 2 match I find my dwarf opponent
If you would like ranked to change, you need to have black box changed, or both will stay as they are, and we can STOP OPENING TOPICS against one or the other attitude. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 31, 2015 - 22:07 |
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| Kam wrote: | Yeah, don't worry, I'm leaving it.
Seriously, guys like Brainsaw have been trying to make pixel hugging something cool and I'm the jerk for simply saying extreme picking is lame... Got it.
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If you are building a team for the Majors the yes it makes sense as long as you stay within the rules. But not everyone is doing that. People play for a lot of different reasons.
| Kam wrote: |
But since you have that kind of reasoning, you should also tell the ARR guy to quit trying to change the Box... "It is what it is, take it or leave it".
o/ |
What Human League and ARR do is is give people something to play for.
Box is still what it is. It is great for younger teams. It can be pretty grim for older teams.
| Leilond wrote: |
I blame the box because it force me to pick in ranked. |
The Box does not "force" you to pick in Ranked. If you have had your fill of bash by playing Box, League & tournaments then fine. But you are not "forced".
If you "want" to play elf on elf then play it. But no one is forcing you.  |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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