pubstar
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
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 Posted:
May 03, 2015 - 02:55 |
 
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | pubstar wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: | | The reports of Box's death have been greatly exaggerated. |
True. I activated this morning just because of all your cheerleading, mrt. I hope you're happy! |
How it go? |
Well I activated all my teams, but the matchup ended up being my Khemri v. Orcs. Ogre, Underworld, High Elfs, Halflings, and Vampires didn't meet Bowlbot's desires, so no boost to diversity. I diced the crap out of the opposing coach. Was fun, though when my dice are that good it's actually a bit boring. *shrug*
I used to be a big fan of Box, but I became a ranked player mostly when the new gamefinder came out. Unless I'm 1-2 minutes from an activation, it's much quicker to get a ranked game, which is what interested me about Blackbox in the first place. |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
May 03, 2015 - 05:20 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: | | But the decline in player base from 2009 (CRP) to now has been dramatic. Draw whatever conclusion you wish from that, but I seriously doubt that has much at all to do with the Cyanide game. |
If you doubt this, you are ignoring the blatant facts Rat.
Listen...
Fumbbl - on a whole - went from 60k+ games/quarter (gpq) to 30k+ gpq exactly after Cyanide released their game. Gpq had been at a stable 60k - 70k for 5 years, between 2004 and 2009. However just after the Cyanide release, it quickly decreased, and was halved over the next year.
If anything was "dramatic" though, as you say, it was Ranked's loss of games played. It plummeted from 40k gpq (that's 40 000 games over 3 months), to only 5k gpq over the next two years while we were stuck in the LRB4 limbo. That was an 87% of decline of Ranked games. Unfortunately. Box suffered equally but was a lesser division back then.
This is not about Box over Ranked, but after we got the new client, Blackbox stayed the biggest division on Fumbbl for the whole of 2011 and 2012. That's two years.
Unfortunately, the minmaxing exploit drove a lot coaches away from Box in 2013, but since the scheduler fix and Koadah's establishment of meta leagues, Box numbers are now back up, and are now on 64% of that of Ranked.
The numbers speaks the truth of two healthy divisions in Fumbbl, and the overall gpq on the same level as 2011.
38% of all CR games are now played in Blackbox.
So instead of drawing "whatever conclusions you wish", look at the stats.
You can easily see them here. |
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DrPoods
Joined: Nov 14, 2013
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| Posted:
May 03, 2015 - 13:22 |
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What are the challenge races, K? |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
May 03, 2015 - 15:33 |
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| Balle2000 wrote: | | So instead of drawing "whatever conclusions you wish", look at the stats.here. |
Hey Balle,
I'm not a fumbbl historian, but I thought CRP also came out around the same time as Cyanide? If so, isn't it reasonable to also assume the CRP ruleset might have cost the site some players? |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
May 03, 2015 - 15:49 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: | | Balle2000 wrote: | | So instead of drawing "whatever conclusions you wish", look at the stats.here. |
Hey Balle,
I'm not a fumbbl historian, but I thought CRP also came out around the same time as Cyanide? If so, isn't it reasonable to also assume the CRP ruleset might have cost the site some players? |
Clearly you didn't check the stats before you started proclaiming stuff about the Fumbbl player base. You didn't know what you were talking about, but still you talked.
CRP rules for Fumbbl came out 1.5 years after Cyanide.
CRP ruleset brought Fumbbl player numbers back up. Including making Box the biggest division for 2 years.
PS: You don't need to be a historian, just check simple stats and dates. But thanks for the compliment. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
May 03, 2015 - 16:13 |
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| Wolfydan wrote: | | Mostly agree with the individual points, but I think you underestimate +ST, and passing elves. |
Hi Dan.
I like +ST. Just in a lot of cases, I like the doubles more. On elf linemen, I like guard so much that I'm more than willing to turn down +ST to get it. There isn't an elf catcher or blitzer I would turn +ST down on, save perhaps the wood elf catcher. I took that recently, and I might again, but going from 2 to 3 isn't all that dramatic.
On throwers again, I think there's just a ton of really good options out there before taking a double or +ST. You're paying for GPA access, so that leaves only strength skills. Let's take a look at the viable single rolls for an elf thrower:
Block
Dodge
Sure Hands
Leader
Accurate
Sidestep
Now, that's a legend thrower right there, and a pretty good player, all out of single rolls. You've also got some other options, like kick or tackle that we could also go with, or even leap on a +AG one. You'll notice that I do include accurate as a good skill for throwers. It is a good skill, and it's strictly better than strong arm, since it works on all throws.
Why then, do I advise new players to stay away from building the quarterback instead of building a short-passing point guard out of single rolls? We've all seen the rookie coach with the Accurate/Strong Arm super thrower. A lot of the time it's the most expensive player on his roster, and he just doesn't do anything to help that player win other than encourage him to make risky downfield plays. It's also sucking TV from the blitzers and catchers, the guys who actually play defense.
If you've played 1000 games of fumbbl, and you want to build a super thrower, go for it. I still think strong arm isn't worth it, and I don't really see the point of taking +ST on a traditional thrower, when there are a bunch of really good singles available to him. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
May 03, 2015 - 16:19 |
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| Balle2000 wrote: | | You didn't know what you were talking about, but still you talked. |
I honestly wasn't really looking to have a discussion about blackbox, clawpomb, or CRP at all... so I'll just concede your point and move on. |
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albinv
Joined: Sep 15, 2012
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| Posted:
May 04, 2015 - 15:11 |
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| bghandras wrote: | | albinv wrote: | ....Got a box draw to play first though - my 1310 TV dwarfs against 1890 TV clawpomb chaos.   |
This is a typical f**** situation. I would like to avoid it like plague. The way I can circumvent is:
- Activate lots of teams...
- Activate old teams (older than 30 games) the above example happens most of the time with 4 activation....
- I make sure to have at least 1 dirty player on old teams. Teams that are old tend to sport at least 1 super star or legendary player which hogs most of the TV....(in poker if you know you are worse in a heads-up due to less skill, you can set at 40% winning percentage by simply going all in on all bets. You can emulate this with fouling.) |
1. Yes, i normally do to enhance chances for a draw. At least 4 i think. Sometimes i dont - or just aint able to of course.
2. Im actually aware of that but its good to point it out for newer coaches who might stumble upon this. Yes, those are rare draws overall!
They really seem rare for the average type of coach and you can prevent them by the way described if timezone issues dont force you to activate.
Me i just should be sensible and not activate in those circumstances.
While i need my kicks, it certainly would be much wiser to invest my time into something different in those times - like reading a book on probability crunching or something.
Its a useful tool in general and it would certainly help having a solid foundation in order to win more by bad plays, killing and fouls in BB.
While its hard to believe of course - there are those moments where i actually have an eye for positioning but then there is this crosshair on my vision - which has to be given first priority i guess. Not rarely i have won matches by ok positioning (with about ~1200 matches played, it happens - even to me) but have made zero or little fouls and CAS!
And after it i often thought: "Ok, that sucked. Im not satisfied at all. How cheap that was. Way of least resistence." I didnt feel very smart nor happy.
Then again, i lost more matches than i have won. And that sucks too for sure. I gotta try harder to achieve my goals i guess.
3. I liked the initial observation in your foul blog, stating there must be more legends and stars in the game now than back in LRB4, which theoretically could be an argument for fouling. Well i thought the same.
I dont think i have any teams without at least one DP. Even on dwarfs...
Dwarfs for me is just the line of "cheesiness" that shouldnt be crossed in BB. They are strong but their design concept truely makes sense and isnt flawed/ compromised. They cleary have to pay for their strength. But yes they are tough cookies, so i can as well run a Guard+DP Longbeard.
The part about Poker: well, my current Box rate is about 45% i think. Go figure. 
"Have fun, do the right things."
I have been a major whiner/ spoiler and grump for some months now. At times i even provoked turnovers for me by intention and stuff. Downright lunatic.
I will stop that.
By the way ^^...i joined your Anti-Dwarf Association with my R Dwarfs.
Now the question is, will you enlist them as members and why did i do so? |
Last edited by albinv on %b %04, %2015 - %19:%May; edited 2 times in total |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
May 04, 2015 - 15:48 |
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Fumbbl access plummeted after the C&D which prompted that the old client was no longer downloadable. That was before Cyanide released its game. For a long time it was basically impossible for anyone new to join unless he was googling it through some obscure way on the interwebs.
Within this time the Cyanide game launched and that was probably a reason a lot of coaches left then.
As for CRP it has probably made some veterans leave.. (about 15%).. but it also the reason why new people come here again. |
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WolfyDan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 04, 2015 - 15:56 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: |
Hi Dan.
I like +ST. Just in a lot of cases, I like the doubles more. On elf linemen, I like guard so much that I'm more than willing to turn down +ST to get it. |
I'm also a fan of guard on linemen (it's about the only skill I really want on them). +ST is like having your own guard guy right inside you. I think +ST is better for elves as often you try and create 1v1 situations. For example you don't want to keep tightly packed against teams with S as a regular access as when they start to combine their guard players it is a nightmare. So +ST allows you to be more effective in loose play, especially if you are only engineering the one guy to get loose or wish to suck in several opposing players. Additionally at some point you'll probably need to try a cage break and getting the guard inside is a tough call.
| Rat_Salat wrote: |
Let's take a look at the viable single rolls for an elf thrower:
Block
Dodge
Sure Hands
Leader
Accurate
Sidestep
I don't really see the point of taking +ST on a traditional thrower, when there are a bunch of really good singles available to him. |
I'm not a fan of Leader on elf throwers except in tournament builds. You lose +30k in bloat to get the team re-roll, but you get an extra skill on the field. For me that is more important.
I like Strong Arm as it turns your 2/2/3/4 into 2/2/2/3 (assuming you already have accurate), and I think that really opens up the options and allows you to play a more vertical game. I think for HE and PE this is a necessity, and only WE and DE I think I would not bother with it (as I'd play a more running or short passing game anyhow).
I think that Side Step is a bit of a luxury skill on most throwers, and as much as I think that more skill choice discussions should reflect how messy BB really is, I do think in this instance picking a skill that only works when you get hit on a player that you are trying very hard to never get hit is not taking advantage of the synergy you can get in other skills. I'd rather take Nerves of Steel. That way if your cage/screen is broken with a blitz and the opposition gets a lot of tackle zones on your ball carrier, you can still long pass on a 2+. And if they have committed chances are that you have someone in the clear. Another reason why I think Safe Throw is better than +MA.
For +ST I tend to end up taking 2 throwers, as I think the extra stuff you get is worth the +20k cost. But I'd tend to turn one into a super thrower and the other into more of a sweeper. So if I were lucky enough to get +ST early I think I would go tackle, sure hands, dump off and nerves of steel so I could down the carrier, pick up the ball, not get safe (not a plan more a reality of that sort of situation), but then dump off when he got blitzed - maybe even to the other thrower who might also have NoS to catch it.
Of course keeping them alive that long is the tough part But nice to discuss different ideas with other elf fans. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 04, 2015 - 15:58 |
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| Wreckage wrote: |
Within this time the Cyanide game launched and that was probably a reason a lot of coaches left then.
As for CRP it has probably made some veterans leave.. (about 15%).. but it also the reason why new people come here again. |
When Cyanide launched it was LRB5 while Fumbbl was still LRB4. I continued run my leagues on Fumbbl but for open/pick up games I went to Cyanide.
When Cyanide public divisions turned out to be crap I went over to play at stuntyleeg.com using the BOTOCS LRB5 client.
When Fumbbl went CRP I came back to Fumbbl. |
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keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
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| Posted:
May 04, 2015 - 16:04 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | Fumbbl access plummeted after the C&D which prompted that the old client was no longer downloadable. That was before Cyanide released its game. For a long time it was basically impossible for anyone new to join unless he was googling it through some obscure way on the interwebs.
Within this time the Cyanide game launched and that was probably a reason a lot of coaches left then.
As for CRP it has probably made some veterans leave.. (about 15%).. but it also the reason why new people come here again. |
I left Fumbbl for a couple years when CRP came out. We used the rules right away for our TT league, which took off with Numbers. I never liked the LRB 4 rules, as it wasn't about scoring TDs and more about fouling with numbers. When I had heard Fumbbl had changed to the CRP rules, I came back. Blood Bowl definitely became more popular in my area after the newest rule set came out. Not many people I know stuck with the Cyanide version. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
May 04, 2015 - 20:18 |
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| albinv wrote: | | bghandras wrote: | | albinv wrote: | | ....Got a box draw to play first though - my 1310 TV dwarfs against 1890 TV clawpomb chaos. |
This is a typical f**** situation. I would like to avoid it like plague. The way I can circumvent is:
- Activate lots of teams...
- Activate old teams (older than 30 games) the above example happens most of the time with 4 activation....
- I make sure to have at least 1 dirty player on old teams. Teams that are old tend to sport at least 1 super star or legendary player which hogs most of the TV....(in poker if you know you are worse in a heads-up due to less skill, you can set at 40% winning percentage by simply going all in on all bets. You can emulate this with fouling.) |
1. Yes, i normally do to enhance chances for a draw. At least 4 i think. Sometimes i dont - or just aint able to of course.
2. Im actually aware of that but its good to point it out for newer coaches who might stumble upon this. Yes, those are rare draws overall!
They really seem rare for the average type of coach and you can prevent them by the way described if timezone issues dont force you to activate.
Me i just should be sensible and not activate in those circumstances.
While i need my kicks, it certainly would be much wiser to invest my time into something different in those times - like reading a book on probability crunching or something.
Its a useful tool in general and it would certainly help having a solid foundation in order to win more by bad plays, killing and fouls in BB.
While its hard to believe of course - there are those moments where i actually have an eye for positioning but then there is this crosshair on my vision - which has to be given first priority i guess. Not rarely i have won matches by ok positioning (with about ~1200 matches played, it happens - even to me) but have made zero or little fouls and CAS!
And after it i often thought: "Ok, that sucked. Im not satisfied at all. How cheap that was. Way of least resistence." I didnt feel very smart nor happy.
Then again, i lost more matches than i have won. And that sucks too for sure. I gotta try harder to achieve my goals i guess.
3. I liked the initial observation in your foul blog, stating there must be more legends and stars in the game now than back in LRB4, which theoretically could be an argument for fouling. Well i thought the same.
I dont think i have any teams without at least one DP. Even on dwarfs...
Dwarfs for me is just the line of "cheesiness" that shouldnt be crossed in BB. They are strong but their design concept truely makes sense and isnt flawed/ compromised. They cleary have to pay for their strength. But yes they are tough cookies, so i can as well run a Guard+DP Longbeard.
The part about Poker: well, my current Box rate is about 45% i think. Go figure.
"Have fun, do the right things."
I have been a major whiner/ spoiler and grump for some months now. At times i even provoked turnovers for me by intention and stuff. Downright lunatic.
I will stop that.
By the way ^^...i joined your Anti-Dwarf Association with my R Dwarfs.
Now the question is, will you enlist them as members and why did i do so? |
Surely accept them. There is no bigger ad than this. 
Maybe after the dust settles, and arguments are endless, then we may deal with it dark elves style, but for now everything is fair game. (And also later is everything fair game.)
Onto the thread: Your rate is higher than 40%, so you don't need to go all in all the time.
Foul all dorfs!
P.S. Did you join the Agility Monsters hate group? It is only immoral NOT to join them! |
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albinv
Joined: Sep 15, 2012
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 Posted:
May 05, 2015 - 00:01 |
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| bghandras wrote: | | Surely accept them. There is no bigger ad than this. |
/bow
Yeah, admittedly there are some nasty dorf teams around which would truely deserve a real good beating. Only true in the end.
I figured maybe some brave elfs might join Drow brew's righteous mission and together bring up the guts to give those stupid R dwarfs the kicking they desperately need!
| bghandras wrote: | | P.S. Did you join the Agility Monsters hate group? It is only immoral NOT to join them! |
Sure thing. Saw it and joined right away. Seek and destroy.
These short-legged monstrosities of lumpy lunatics deserve every righteous hatred and grimness one can bring up!
| bghandras wrote: | | Foul all dorfs! |
Amen! |
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