JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 05, 2015 - 16:57 |
 
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| Harad wrote: | | I play a coach who is much worse than me with dwarves 10 times, I win say 9 and lose 1. |
I get your point, but the quoted passage is what I don't agree with.
Counter-example, stupid and without any proper math to back it up: in the quoted passage above, I'd say you would win 7, tie 3.
You wouldn't lose, but you would still win less than with elves.
Why? Because ag4 ma7 are awesome. Because wardancers are the best player in bloodbowl, because they are awesome ball sackers, ball retrievers and ball carriers. Because if you can position better than your opponent (which is true assuming the premises), ag4 ma7 across the board is invaluable.
Ma4 ag2 would hurt you where it counts: your ability to be where you want. Elves give you that, and if you are a better coach you would get the most out of it. Which, incidentally, also means fewer blocks taken and a higher chance to press the ball on defence. |
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Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
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May 05, 2015 - 17:01 |
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Ok, then I respect your opinion  |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 05, 2015 - 17:06 |
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At the end, it's as simple as answering this question:
"If I were to play the best blood bowl coach in the world, and I had to squeeze at least a tie out of it, what would be the absolute worst team for me to face no matter what *I* bring to the table?"
I'd answer "oh god, wood elves" at almost any tv.
Other coaches might disagree, of course. |
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Bazakastine
Joined: Mar 21, 2014
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May 05, 2015 - 17:53 |
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I see two ways to look at this question.
One is to minimize variance (High AV, Lots of Block/Guard for safe 2D blocks, minimum reliance on Agility rolls) and take something like Orcs or Dwarves. Basically your 2-1 grinders. Now you usually will be able to roll to a win but it will be relatively close. The problem is if things start to go sideways (2 early cas against, failed pickups, double skulls, Blitz! kickoff result, or whatever really) you don't have a lot of ability to recover.
The other thought is to take a high variance team (Low AV, 4AG, 7+MA, lots of dodge, etc.) that you know has the ability to recover when things go poorly and that can outscore the opponent quickly so if things start to fall apart you have more of a cushion. For most this would be Wood Elves as has been discussed.
I would be partial to Dark Elves myself as they have the 4AG to break games open but enough Blodge and AV8 to stay on the pitch. (Also I don't really know how to play Wood Elves effectively as evidenced by my league team that draws every match now)
Now if you would guarantee me 1 statboost and 1 double on a relatively developed team give me Skaven. A oneturner and a Cpomber should be enough in almost any game against an over-matched coach. |
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PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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May 05, 2015 - 17:55 |
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| Bazakastine wrote: | | Dark Elves |
+1 |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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May 05, 2015 - 18:16 |
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If only the racial factor tables were still visible, they would illustrate the point that the answer changes a fair bit with TV. As such, giving one answer is pretty tough. You might say Undead, for instance, but as they move up in TV, you'll be at more and more of a disadvantage depending on the mystery race. Chaos pants then great, Orcs solidly Stoke City sort of fine.
I think something that performs solidly across the range is Amazons. Brilliant low, good medium and still pretty good high against the top TV heavyweights. They have two absolutely stinking bogeys; but if I'm better than the other guy, I will take my chances against CDs or Dorfs, Fanatic proved it could be done, and done well. Woodies may stick in everyone's mind as 'those bastards', but actually if I recall correctly, they were never kings of the numbers, and it can go wrong with a failed dodge and lots of contact against a savvy coach (even an inferior savvy coach).
If I had to bet my mortgage on winning any game of Blood Bowl thrown at me, I think my natural coaching leanings would push me in the direction of speed and agility, the exact flavour of which would vary according to TV. If I were dispassionately doing the exercise for anyone else, I might consider throwing Amazons in there. |
Last edited by Purplegoo on %b %05, %2015 - %18:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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May 05, 2015 - 18:22 |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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May 05, 2015 - 18:36 |
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As licker said, elves give you the best chance to beat an inferior opponent.
Either AV8 elf team is good, to reduce the AV7 team explosion factor. Dark Elves come with frenzy, which punishes bad coaches pretty well, plus start with 4 block and blodge quickly.
There's a lot of DE pickers in ranked who do just this on a regular basis. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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May 05, 2015 - 21:55 |
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I can buy an argument for min/maxed zons being terrors, but I still wouldn't pick them to win just one game.
Why?
No AG4 and no MA7+
When things go pear shaped zons are totally screwed because they have no tools to pull the rabbit out of the hat.
Elfs, even when things get crazy, still pull off those stupid plays that only elfs pull off.
AG4 and MA7( are just too damn good. Oh, and they also blodge up pretty easily too. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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May 05, 2015 - 22:03 |
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Speed and agility are good things, but not the only things.
Shrug, it's effectively an opinion poll with no right answer. Not worth spending too much time arguing the toss.  |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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May 05, 2015 - 22:56 |
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CDs work at any TV. The only other team for that that is true are Orcs and they don't work with every matchup. Gotta be CDs.
All elfs suck at rookie level. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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May 05, 2015 - 23:07 |
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Honestly, most people are only quoting the team THEY would feel the most comfortable with. A lot of people have been talking about DE/WE for instance - I know for sure that would be a really bad pick for me.
Just pick the Tier 1 team that matches the best your playstyle. All tier 1 teams are versatile (as in: they can win against any other team), and either prevent things from getting crazy most of the time (like injuries thanks to high AV and multiple blockers) or let you still have a chance when that happens (Elfs). |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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May 05, 2015 - 23:11 |
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Undead don't work at high TV. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 05, 2015 - 23:17 |
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| Kam wrote: | | Honestly, most people are only quoting the team THEY would feel the most comfortable with. A lot of people have been talking about DE/WE for instance - I know for sure that would be a really bad pick for me. |
Maybe. Not me though. I am TERRIBLE with woodies, mainly because I never coached them. Like, never.
I chose them because I always feel I am bad *against* them, not good *with* them. |
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FallenHope1369
Joined: Sep 10, 2014
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May 05, 2015 - 23:24 |
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Depends on the TV, and your style of play.
If you like bash, Orc, Dwarf, or Undead
If you like finesse, Dark Elf, Wood Elf, or Elf
At low TV, Amazons or Norse have their benefits
At high TV, a developed Slann team can be an absolute nightmare.
Mid TV, I'd take Skaven or Chaos Dwarf |
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Gnomes are trash
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