arry
Joined: Feb 26, 2014
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 Posted:
May 06, 2015 - 15:55 |
 
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I have a Human team in the 1400 range. Nice sweet chaps, and even win sometimes. But when I meet Chaos (or Nurgle, or to a certain extent Khemri), I just cannot see what to do. They are better at strength, and at blocking, and at armor. Make a cage, and they trounce it. Run away, and they come at you and beat you. Then they have numbers and it snowballs.
What can I do to feel like playing a game instead of being a punching bag? |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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May 06, 2015 - 16:10 |
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Play amazons. That team is as much pain in those asses as they are for humans. Guard on Blitzers (instead of Mb/Po), and Daunless (and Block) on catchers is the only investment I would consider, but even that does not turn around the matchup. There is little point turning your team only against a handful of races. No matter the race, you will have bad matchups. |
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tmoila
Joined: Nov 25, 2012
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May 06, 2015 - 16:16 |
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That is common dilemma when playing versus higher tier teams. Usually it comes down to a superior coaching skills to overcome the easy mode chaos tactic of guardspamclawpomb. Usually by mbpo guardspamming blitzers and having an ogre. |
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pubstar
Joined: Jun 13, 2009
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May 06, 2015 - 16:41 |
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| bghandras wrote: | | ...There is little point turning your team only against a handful of races. No matter the race, you will have bad matchups. |
I agree with this in Ranked, where you can diversify your own matchups. However, one of arry's Human teams in in Blackbox, and I think it's perfectly logical to tailor your team to face Chaos (or a team with similar tactics) every other match in Blackbox.
I'm by no means good enough to give advice, but I do think playing to your race's advantages is the key to winning difficult matchups. If you try to bash with bashers, Humans fail. However, Humans are much faster than Chaos, and can out-maneuver them. Try a passing play for a score rather than manning up with their superior strength. |
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Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
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May 06, 2015 - 16:57 |
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1) Find replays of the best human coaches winning against chaos at that sort of TV(happygrue, Endzone and fxiii all have good records, I'm no expert on who is best but those guys all impressed me).
2) Start your own chaos team and play it at those sort of TVs. Other people will beat you and you will start to understand what you don't like and therefore what works against them.
3) Don't become addicted to chaos and just play clawpomb. Nothing wrong with chaos, just keep some balance. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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May 06, 2015 - 17:04 |
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I find it boring to develop a chaos team till they click, then I find it boring not getting matches with them. So booo-ring. But that is all personal. I would rather win than kill. |
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PaddyMick
Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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May 06, 2015 - 17:07 |
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Your strength vs those teams is speed; switch the play, use screens instead of cages, leave them stranded, use a passing game, punch holes and flood through, score quickly and minimise losses on defense. Then be heroic. Humans are born to be heroes of the improbable play. Never give up. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 06, 2015 - 17:09 |
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Use your linos to tie up their high st players. They usually have low mobility and since they lack block at the start, at low tv they shouldn't be great killers yet.
Use your blitzers as a pack of wolves: a single human blitzer is adequate, but four of them can wreack havoc. Give them guard and let them stay together. If your blitzers disperse, you lose.
Standard human strategy vs chaos, orcs and dwarfs is to use linos to tie up the bear claws, and use the four blitzers to strike at its heart.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it's doable.
On offense: get yourself a block catcher and give him the ball. A blodge ma8 ballcarrier is awesome.
on defense, be aggressive and don't let the cage form. If it does, use your Ogre as a roadblock and hit the sides with blitzers. Your opponent will roll a doublepowskull sooner o later, and that's your chance to strike with your guards. |
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Last edited by JanMattys on %b %06, %2015 - %17:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 06, 2015 - 17:09 |
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| pubstar wrote: |
I agree with this in Ranked, where you can diversify your own matchups. However, one of arry's Human teams in in Blackbox, and I think it's perfectly logical to tailor your team to face Chaos (or a team with similar tactics) every other match in Blackbox. |
I've heard that the ratio has improved to closer to 1 in 3 than 1 in 2.
Good times.  |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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May 06, 2015 - 17:25 |
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Coaching a human team is not easy, particularly the higher the TV gets. At around TV 140 it is just starting to get harder. Humans can bash the squishier teams but it is tricky against the tougher teams - their strength advantage is a problem and you are vulnerable to being marked since you dodge away on 3s which is not great.
Against these tough teams you have to use your advantage of high movement and you need to make it count. On offense weave from side to side and try to minimise the number of your players that can be marked. The more spread out you can make the game the better. The more you can make the game about the ball the better. Crowd pushes are great for removing and injuring tough opponents. Your linemen are cheap and your skilled up positionals are valuable. Don't let deadly opponents get a hit on them, screen them with your cheap linemen. Your high speed is great for punishing mistakes or taking advantage of favourable dice. Keep the game as low risk as you can, but sometimes, when things are going against you, you have to see when it is time to give the dice a chance to get you back in it. Your high movement and number of skills on positionals (and probably high rerolls) means you have a chance. There is often some sort of defensive resource on. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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May 06, 2015 - 17:38 |
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High strength is not good for the Hoomans. Keep your big players, the Blitzers and Ogre, mobile. Even if you have to turn down blocks to keep 3-4/5 of these guys moving, it's worthwhile. Focus on positioning in such a way that you create local mismatches in important areas using your bigger guys. If you line up 11 men flat, you will spend a half picking your guys up as they get two diced every turn, or worse, having to make several 3+ses every turn to delay the inevitable. Speed kills, and this is your advantage in these games. Make incisive, quick moves and avoid situations like one CW pinning two Blitzers.
It's not easy, but it's fun. Good luck!  |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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May 06, 2015 - 17:43 |
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also: Ag3 dodges just fine. You have block, you have surehands, you have pass, you have catch.
Rerolls are there to help you turn into the occasional elf  |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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May 06, 2015 - 18:19 |
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kick em all in the balls |
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fly
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 06, 2015 - 18:38 |
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bring one down, foul. repeat. |
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I play for fun. I play to win.
Do you play CPOMB 'cause you can't win otherwise?
No, that's a rhetorical question. |
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arry
Joined: Feb 26, 2014
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| Posted:
May 06, 2015 - 18:44 |
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Thanks everybody for valuable suggestions and insight! I feel better prepared to the inevitable upcoming Chaos matchups. |
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Gnomes are trash
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