mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Heh. I'm not arguing against the importance of roadblock Bigs, more the fun of them. Big Guys have a great and iconic place in BB fluff and it saddens me to see them brought low. |
Last edited by mister__joshua on %b %03, %2015 - %16:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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 Posted:
Aug 03, 2015 - 16:20 |
 
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Well I do agree Loner has to be fixed (especially the combo WA, which forces you to blitz with the BG, and Loner, which does the opposite). But I'd have a "middle way" rather than simply ditching the skill. Don't ask me what though. I yet have to figure it out.  |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Aug 03, 2015 - 18:10 |
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IMO, big Guys are nice damage dealers and road Blocks at low TV, but at high TV they just become too unreliable.
Someone else has suggested this fix, which I quite like. It is added to the text on loner skill:
If the player has acquired 3 skills (31 SPPs) then he may add +1 to his loner roll.
If the player has acquired 5 skills (76 SPPs) then he may add +2 to his loner roll.
Ofcourse this would be a boost to some teams to the chagrin of others.
Cheers
Martin |
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Deniz87
Joined: Aug 06, 2011
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Aug 03, 2015 - 18:12 |
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| Quote: | | Snotlings changed for Gnoblars who are faster and tougher, but price increased to 30. Teams allowed 11 ogres. To me the point of an Ogre team is to field Ogres, not half a team of Ogres. Making them 0-11 means you won't get Journeymen Ogres, but if you can keep a team together you could field a full 11. The removing of Loner from other bigs makes Ogres lose their shtick, so now their thing is 11 Ogres! |
yes....11 ogres on the pitch would be right.
I play with a team similar to the old ogre teams (up to 12 of them)......so much fun.
If 11 or 12 are too many....well..8 at least?...
Unfortunately they don't want ogre teams to be better. They have to be one of the less successful and tough races to play,along with vamps or halflings,etc..so they WANT to penalize them at all costs.
And...there you go..CRP....up to 16 useless snots and only 6 ogres that you can't even have right away. Yay! What should have been a strong team has become a stunty team. Quite ridiculous if you ask me. |
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Bobs
Joined: Feb 26, 2009
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Aug 04, 2015 - 15:38 |
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In the good old days you could spend a skill slot to remove negatraits
Make it a double to do it and there you go \o/ |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 04, 2015 - 16:25 |
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| plasmoid wrote: | PS - speaking of Dark Elfs:
If I could make one team change, I'd do this:
I think Dark Elfs are very strong in early Development (and resurrection tournaments) as well as in late Development.
I think a big part of the problem is their quick access to 6 blodgers.
So rather than 0-4 blitzers and 0-2 worthless assassins I'd go:
0-2 Blitzers 7348 Block GA
0-2 Assassins 7348 Stab GA
Cheers
Martin |
This really goes against the DE premise though. The key difference between good and dark elves has been the catcher/blitzer balance.
Good have more catchers/Dark have more blitzers. Darks prefer to run the ball and they also have a dark nasty side, where they enjoy inflicting injuries. If you go down to 2 blitzers, you're coming back into good elf territory.
The problems are that the throwing game isn't quite good enough and that TVwise the Assassin isn't quite worth it.
DukeT a few months ago came up with a nice idea on throwing where pass and safe throw were combined. At least I think that would be worth testing.
As for Assassins, 2 seems a bit to much anyway. 0-1 would be better and as for TV....well that pile of poo needs a major revamp for perpetual gaming. |
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kilinrax
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
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Aug 04, 2015 - 17:05 |
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The Dark Elf Runner and Assassin aren't currently useful, and it's difficult to know how to make them useful without making the Dark Elf roster too good. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Have DElves always had 4 Blitzers? I seem to remember in 3rd edition they only had 2? I could be remembering wrong though. |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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Aug 04, 2015 - 17:40 |
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Very good job on the rosters - here are a few observations:
1. With Dwarves losing tackle there would be no downside to low TV Zons - even with the TV increase of the Zon linemen. I think there has to be some starting access to tackle out there on starting teams or Zons need to lose blanket starting access to Dodge. Should Dwarf Blitzers start with Tackle?
2. MA 9 Woodelf catcher is an unnecessary boost to an already powerful roster and would make one-turners too common. I can see why people find the sprint annoying as a fudged change to the old MA 9 but I think it does what it is supposed to. If you really want to lose sprint just reduce the price by 10K on the catchers.
3. I like M access on a double only for chaos teams and S access on a double only for Marauders.
4. I think the test for all positionals should be 'are they worth it?' and the answer should basically be 'yes'. Buffing Big Guys and many of the other tweaks are therefore good. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Cheers Endzone.
I'm not really a big fan of the Rock/Paper/Scissors mechanic of low TV BloodBowl where Dwarves beat Zons etc. The Zons got a price increase making them less good early game. The Dwarves losing Tackle will make them less good early game vs a few teams (Zons, Stunties, Rats) where they usually shine, but it will make them stronger late game (having 60k Linemen) when they often get outstripped by Chaos and Nurgle in the bash. I considered Tackle on Blitzers, but decided against it in the end.
The Woodie catchers change was more to do with flavour I suppose. They are supposed to be the fastest of the elves, and now they are again. It's correcting a previous change I didn't like. The increased cost makes 1-turning expensive, but yes it is easier. Though no easier than it is on rats, and they can do it cheaper.
I'll probably have another look over the whole thing this week at some point, see if I feel differently on any points now I've had some feedback.  |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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Aug 05, 2015 - 11:43 |
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I agree the rock-paper-scissors situation with Amazon and Dwarves is not ideal but I don't think you resolve that by removing the rock. Then it just becomes a game of paper-scissors which is even worse. Dwarf blitzers are in a strange sort of wilderness in a team where the linemen (blockers) start with block and tackle and have access to S and where there are already frenzied blitzers in the team in the form of slayers. To be a blitzer they should be a more credible option for actually taking a blitz action; taking tackle off blockers and adding it to Blitzers would make a lot of sense from this point of view.
Another option is for a bigger rework of the Amazon roster where they don't start with blanket dodge. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I do like the option of Tackle on Dwarf Blizers. I'll have a look into it. I think the Blitzers probably need something as you say.
If you remove the blanked Dodge from Zons then they aren't really Zons anymore. Same with Norse and Block. I think Dwarves are more unique and don't really suffer the same problem by removing tackle. There are many other things that make them undeniably dwarfy: Block, Thick Skull, low MA High AV etc. |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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| Posted:
Aug 05, 2015 - 12:30 |
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Chaos Pact
The Chaos Pact roster was based on the edition 2 Chaos All-Stars (as the Underworld team was based on the Underworld Creepers). The Pact roster has the following flaws in relation to the marauders:
1. Cheap easy blanket clawpomb access for cheap linemen
2. The Dark Elf is the default ball carrier when he was intended as a catcher.
3. Giving marauders P access doesn't work for building throwers, it just gives them cheap Leader reroll.
I say go true to the original Chaos All-Stars team with the following replacing Maurauders:
0-2 Chaos Human Blitzers Block 7338 GS MAP 90K
0-2 Chaos Human Throwers Pass, Sure Hands 6338 GP MAS 70K
0-2 Chaos Human Mutants 6338 M GSAP 40K
0+ Chaos Human Linemen 6338 G MSAP 50K
Clawpomb access is now restricted to doubles, throwers are ball carrier candidates and the mutants at only 40K but with only M access except on a double encourage mutations beyond claw. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Are you suggesting losing the Big Guys, or did you just miss them off? If you are then I don't agree, they're the iconic part of Pact for me.
I already had 2 goes at Pact (they're both on there). The second one with the Witch Elf and Beserker I probably prefer but it's a hard roster to write. I tried to think of races with a traditional bent for Chaos without including Beastmen or Warriors. In this version the Marauders lost the S access too.
I love the idea of Pact being a proper mix of all Chaotic races, like an Compendium-style allies roster. It's a hard one to manage though as throwing that many things together quickly becomes unbalanced. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Aug 05, 2015 - 13:04 |
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I think removing tackle from dorfs and price increase of amazons do a great job toward balance. I don't feel amazon as too good under those circumstances. |
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