zhraia
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
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 Posted:
Nov 01, 2015 - 21:34 |
 
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It has been fun playing, very unstable especially with ogres (blitz the ballcarrier! No? ok, then maybe next half...). Here comes some thoughts and ideas I have from playing and thinking.
As I have understood it, this format favors three thing: teams with good linemen, since your [V] players are your most important players; Reroll saving teams, teams that have skills like block, sure hands and ag4; And Ball stealing, If you form a cage you got 3 players to attack and move forward with, so it's easy to get in the way or get a blitz on the ball carrier.
I think that you should be able to choose any players to be your [V] players. Your [V] players is your most valuable players, since they are the ones that play the most. Right now with linemen, it favors teams with the best linemen, but I feel that your positionals should be your stars, not your linemen. This would also negate the reason to have special rules for teams with weak linemen, such as lizardmen and stunty teams. Many teams are very weak since their linemen are bad, I would not like to have zombies or thralls as my [V] players.
Regarding rerolls, with 8 players you should not need more then 2, maybe more if you play a unstable team like vamps, lizardmen or stunty. If you got a thrower or something with pass access, you can get leader and you're solid (half the time anyway, unless you'r playing chaos pact or something  ).
I see little point in having a maximum number of rerolls, it just gives some teams advantages over other and you have to create special rules to help unstable teams. We can have a rule that states that whatever team has the highest TV must ready their team first (quickly after the opponent have been decided) to stop players from waiting to ready their team.
It would just be fiddly and unnecessary to gain or lose rerolls depending on TV, it would degenerate into coaches min/maxing their teams to get rerolls. |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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Nov 01, 2015 - 22:14 |
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Yeah, I play Pro elves in Grind. I find only one RR is ok as long as you play the percentages well (I'm just not that good with elves). But my experience with Lizards is at least at the moment is it's almost not worth having one as if the dice go bad it's like trying to stop a flood with a mop. It seemed the same with the Slann team I played against first game. First few turns went bad and you are in a position where you can't recover and the last 3/4s of the match is a write off.
I like the idea of a limiting factor as it makes things a little more uncertain a risky than normal but right now it's too far.
I can see your point about V players though I am not sure I agree with changing it. I think my Lizards are still weaker than they would be 11V11 with two V Saurus but a lot of that is 1 RR and no skills. I think once 3-4 start to get to 3 skills and the others have a 1-2 they will be about right and will get stronger in a limited RR environment. They will grow into themselves.
There are other teams that I think might need exceptions like the Lizards, any of the Undead races for example. I think special rules are a better way of getting balance than allowing people to pick who they want which is more likely to favour some teams than others. |
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zhraia
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
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Nov 01, 2015 - 23:04 |
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I'm not sure if having special rules for each team or having general rules for all teams are better. Some teams are simply better then others and if you change the rules the balance will change. Should be try to balance the teams? Most teams that are bad in this format is bashy teams and teams that are already "low tier".
I think that we either keep the players as they are ([V] players is linemen), or halve the number of each positional (like street bowl) and let players choose whatever [V] players they want.
If we want to have special rules for each team, the teams I think needs special rules are:
Needs more then 1 reroll: Lizardmen, chaos, goblin, slann, hafling, nurgle, ogre, vampire.
Have bad linemen: khemri, necromantic, undead, underworld, ogre, goblin, hafling, Lizardmen. Maybe nurgle and vampire to. |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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Nov 02, 2015 - 01:15 |
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The point is generally to keep them close to what they are like at 11V11. Take undead, one of the best low TV sides in the game. But give them 4 Zombies as linemen and they become one of the weaker sides. The balancing is not to make the teams equal, the game is not designed that way but to try and make teams closer to their relative strengths in 11V11. Take Lizardmen, they are still weaker at 8 against 11 a side but with two Saurus as V they are not cripplingly weak as they would be with all Skink V players. With some skill ups they should be alright. Not as good I don't think as they are 11 a side but good enough that they can be competitive with some good coaching.
That's the point I am trying to make. Competitive does not mean the same, just not a lost cause. The worst tier 3 teams have a boost that to my mind makes them more like Tier 2 in this format, which is fine to my mind as it might make people want to play them more.
Blood bowl rosters aren't designed for 8 a side with side of the ball differentiation after all. |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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Nov 02, 2015 - 01:19 |
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Also three Skink level ups today and no doubles  |
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SirIndigo
Joined: Sep 10, 2015
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Nov 02, 2015 - 02:17 |
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I would like to share why I designed some of these rules. Not saying the explanation will quell all doubts, but it should give some insight to aid the discussion. A lot of it comes down to wanting a clear difference between a team's offense and defense. In the very early stages of design I considered making a league where everyone would have two teams, and your "offense" team would play vs your opponents "defense" team, but any way of implementing this as somehow different then just a league where you use two teams was too clunky to be fun.
So if only using one team, what made the most sense to me was to only let players be offensive or defensive. To implement this on Fumbbl I had to create a system that worked with a team you could buy as if it were for a normal league, that is to say only using 1000 gold and no more then 16 players.
This is where the [V] players come in. The rule-set only works by allowing some players to play on both sides of the kick-off, unless the matches were 6v6 which I thought would be going too far. The reason lineman were chosen is that otherwise it just becomes a league of develop 4 well-rounded all-stars, which is the opposite of what I wanted.
Finally, the re-roll restriction is all down to teams starting with 12 players. Quite simply put, I didn't want any team to be only lineman, even to just start out. |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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Nov 02, 2015 - 16:57 |
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Yeah, I agree with that reasoning. Having a majority of V players "linemen" gives them more skills and more use and stops that situation. I think that's a good idea and in many ways actually makes linemen the most important all of a sudden as they do both jobs so you get more mileage out of their skills. |
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zhraia
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
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Nov 02, 2015 - 23:38 |
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Ok, I see now. My idea of a good team in this format has been a team that has it's positional divided evenly between offence and (k)defense, to have the highest chance of bashing and scoring in both situations. This is however boring and the same thing as streetbowl or bb7.
I have read the CBBA (blood bowl 7) guidelines and rules, and there are some interesting things there. There are some ideas that I got from their rules:
*Only include teams with thematic positional, throwers, catchers, runners etc. or simply human-like players. This is a little strange and depends mostly on lore and theme.
*Have a document or list with all teams, stating their allowed rerolls, K, V an O players. having individual rules for each team.
*Only allow some types of players as K or O players. For example a human team may only have catchers, thrower, max one blitzer (and linemen) as offence players; and ogre, 4 blitzers (and linemen) as Kick players. This will prevent identical K and O lineups, which is boring (I know I do the same, but ogres only got 2 positionals).
*Some guideline regarding player naming and team lore. |
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krytie
Joined: Aug 16, 2007
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Nov 03, 2015 - 00:16 |
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I like the format as it is and would like to play a few seasons or more before making any changes unless something is clearly broken. As it stands, coaches need to think properly about team development, and have to compromise between O and K squads in order to have a strong overall team. It also allows teams to develop as strong Offence or Strong Defence teams, just like the NFL. Some teams will stack positionals on O, some on K, some splt them evenly. = character!
My view on V players is not they are stars, on the contrary they are the workhorses. The O/K players are the stars -- They do one thing well in half the game only: (kick, strip, roadblock, interference) or (run, pass, dodge, guard, screen). Currently most teams can only use positions to differentiate between O and K but pretty soon skill picks will also add an element to each team. Personally I can't wait till that happens! |
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SirIndigo
Joined: Sep 10, 2015
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Nov 03, 2015 - 05:55 |
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One thing I could consider would be raising the number of allowed [V] players on a team; 6 maybe. This would make them more disposable. |
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zhraia
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
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Nov 03, 2015 - 07:50 |
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Yea, no changes should be decided until season one is decided. I'm just throwing out ideas at this point. |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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Nov 05, 2015 - 12:03 |
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No, I really think that's a bad idea to increase the V players. That would just stack it in favour of the high AG or MA teams that don't need that many to score. It's hard enough to bash them enough to get them under control without having to get three injuries before you make a dent in the numbers on the pitch. Same with my Lizards, having loads of V skinks means it would be almost impossible to get enough in the CAS box to put me down men so the slower low AG teams are at a massive disadvantage. |
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zhraia
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
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Nov 07, 2015 - 23:16 |
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You need to put a stop to the amazons! They are getting out of hand. Tackle, mb, block, dwarfs, chainsaws! Gogogo west side! |
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zhraia
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
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Nov 26, 2015 - 20:21 |
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Is the league dead? In hindsight 2 week rounds are too long. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jan 06, 2016 - 16:20 |
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Seems like the regular season is over. Is there playoff, or is this dead? |
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