FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Jan 28, 2016 - 21:25

Apparently, they are aware of the existence of CRP.

However:

http://www.thenaf.net/2016/01/bb-at-ww-again/

The NAF believe that the tourney will in fact use CRP (modified most likely) than LRB5.

Overall a good move by the NAF and good communication and respect from both sides. See, we can all be on the same team!

Dalfort

Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Posted: Jan 28, 2016 - 21:37

@harvestmouse, why would Slann be a no go? when you talk to any staff they are not surprised by a Kroot conversion purchase... I pick mine up tomorrow (yay for GW vouchers from the In-Laws Very Happy

).

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harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Jan 28, 2016 - 21:49

Slann do not exist like that in GWs eyes. They were written out of the fluff and replaced by a much cooler theme (to them) Jurassic Park rip off (Lizardmen). So the Slann left the planet a long long time ago (purely because the theme of making every animal a humanoid is a look they wish to eradicate). It is a little ridiculous, but I think they worked.......just.

GW get are very firm (but vague) on such issues. They do not exist, and they do not want that look to exist in their worlds. Fantasy version of Squats.......and we all know how popular they are.

I'm sure they're more than happy with you buying kroots to convert. One thing less popular than Slann is 3rd party manufacturers!

JellyBelly

Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Posted: Jan 28, 2016 - 23:13

harvestmouse wrote:

JellyBelly wrote:

BUT!

The real question is: what teams are they going to include in the box?

I predict Brettonians and Gobbos ;-D

I believe they're working on Human and Orcs (for an alleged boxset). Then artwork for Nurgle and........Dwarfs was it?

There are no extra races in CRP. The extra races that were put in LRB5+ and Icepelt are not official in GWs eyes. I think they'd be fine with Underworld and Pact, but Slann is a definite no no.

I must be getting confused - I thought it was CRP that added Slann, Underworld and Pact. Where did they come in then?

The thing is, LRB6 includes all three as 'BBRC Approved New Teams', so if they want to remove them, they would either have to re-write the LRB or revert to a previous version. Although, I don't understand why they would allow Slann to appear in the LRB, if they wouldn't be willing to have them in the rules of a new boxed game.

Yeah, I guess Orcs and Humans is pretty inevitable, otherwise they would have to completely re-write the first part of the manual. Would be kind of cool to see something different to freshen it up though ..

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koadah

Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Posted: Jan 28, 2016 - 23:52

JellyBelly wrote:

I must be getting confused - I thought it was CRP that added Slann, Underworld and Pact. Where did they come in then?

The thing is, LRB6 includes all three as 'BBRC Approved New Teams', so if they want to remove them, they would either have to re-write the LRB or revert to a previous version. Although, I don't understand why they would allow Slann to appear in the LRB, if they wouldn't be willing to have them in the rules of a new boxed game.

Yeah, I guess Orcs and Humans is pretty inevitable, otherwise they would have to completely re-write the first part of the manual. Would be kind of cool to see something different to freshen it up though ..

The CRP is not exactly LRB6. It is a hacked down LRB6.

Those races and all the fluff were hacked out of the CRP.

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PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 00:20

Here is the path to victory.

You play woodies.

You take two sneaky gits

You only foul AV10 or AV9 players with no assists.

Odds are you will be able to lay out 14-16 fouls a match and never have both gits sent off.

Then every turn you pass the ball, odds are you will get at least 6-8 passes completed in a match.

seems like a lot of points for just running around, passing the ball and lay a boot with no assist, with bad odds to break AV. Rake in a lot of points.

Then score 2 times for the cherry on top.

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xnoelx

Joined: Jun 05, 2012

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 01:39

PainState wrote:

Here is the path to victory.

You play woodies.

You take two sneaky gits

You only foul AV10 or AV9 players with no assists.

Odds are you will be able to lay out 14-16 fouls a match and never have both gits sent off.

Then every turn you pass the ball, odds are you will get at least 6-8 passes completed in a match.

seems like a lot of points for just running around, passing the ball and lay a boot with no assist, with bad odds to break AV. Rake in a lot of points.

Then score 2 times for the cherry on top.

The problem with that is that you want your foulers to be sent off. That's what gets you the League Points...

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Silent_Hastati

Joined: Nov 04, 2014

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 01:44

harvestmouse wrote:

Apparently, they are aware of the existence of CRP.

However:

http://www.thenaf.net/2016/01/bb-at-ww-again/

The NAF believe that the tourney will in fact use CRP (modified most likely) than LRB5.

Overall a good move by the NAF and good communication and respect from both sides. See, we can all be on the same team!

Woah woah that's not cool. I can't browse gaming forums without at LEAST 700ml of NaCl. Get out of here with your reasonableness.

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sann0638

Joined: Aug 09, 2010

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 08:51

The "modified" seems to refer to resurrection, 1300TV and assigned skills.

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the_Sage

Joined: Jan 13, 2011

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 16:48

Wait, GW says Slann don't exist anymore? But don't WHFB lizardman armies have a Slann Mage Priest positional? (wait, that's not called a positional, is it?). Like a fat toad in Buddha pose getting carried around on a palanquin by a bunch of saurus?

xnoelx wrote:

The problem with that is that you want your foulers to be sent off. That's what gets you the League Points...

Indeed, it's amazing. GW returns to BloodBowl, and the first thing they do? NERF sneaky git. =D

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harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 17:28

GW feel the aesthetic quality of their product is extremely important. When they have written a roster/army/species out of the game, I guess they deliberate hard on whether to do it or not.

This tends to lead to almost fanatically hard line stance on either side of the line. Most infamously 40k Squats. Another was almost the Chaos Dwarfs. When they lost support and the fans became fanatical, some design staff deliberated over wiping them out, to end it there and then......so what am I getting at......a dead race is a dead race and under no circumstances can a dead race be brought back without the design staffs' backing. The Slann as we know them are the (probably mostly Galak's) BBRC interpretation of the BB 2nd edition Slann roster (and a damn fine job they did too).

Totally off topic and the story is a long one, but this is briefly the history of Slann:

Warhammer started off as a game to find more use out of the growing line of Citadel miniatures. Initially they were made for D&D to help visually with roleplaying. The fact you don't actually need miniatures to roleplay always meant there was a limited appeal and figures sold to roleplayers in limited numbers.

So when Warhammer started, it was generally good vs evil. A bunch of Dwarf/Human/Elves on one side Orcs/Monsters/Evily humany things on the other. This was rather limited, so they needed to develop armies. Initially this fell into 2 lines. Archetypal fantasy (Dwarfs and Goblins) and Ansell's Myth lines (Norse and Nippon).

At some point (86ish) GW started to develop it's own character (rather than being D&Ds pony). It's own brand of Chaos and 'animal humanoids' intially proved popular. Mostly these came under beastmen, which came in all shapes and sizes. Fish, bear, fly, walrus.....you name it. But there were others. The Skaven and the Slann.

This was a 2 edge sword. Although moderately successful, there was a fair bit of negative critique 'on what animal is going to get the GW treatment next?'

This is a bit of a shame for Slann, as the fluff was extremely strong (but way out there). The troop types were great too (Stunty's Pygmies borrows greatly from Slann Warhammer troop types btw).

So when Blood Bowl came out, initially it was more of a skirmish game with a ball and warhammer. Armies were translated into teams. Of course one of those being the Slann. So at this point they still appear as we know them in BB, not as we know them now in Warhammer.

On to 3rd edition Warhammer and 2nd edition Blood Bowl. By this stage GW were much more professional and as hobby company without worrying about shareholders and stock markets; reaching it's peak. Everything was becoming much more professional, but still with the freedom to design how they liked.

Slann however were nosediving. They along with Norse and Werewolves were the only Blood Bowl team not to get their own figure lines. I remember bunking off of school and going into GWs flagship London store in 1990 and nobody having any idea whether they had their own figure line or not. They thought they had (and that CDs hadn't) but were definitely mail order only. This meant to play them, you'd have to buy 40k or Fantasy figures. 40k Slann were also mail order only.

On top of this, there was no cheap option for them in 40k or Fantasy, like the other races. Figure lines were also limited. Which meant collecting them in any environment was a labour of love. And the more professional the company got, the more it was time to put the animals back in the forest and the pond.

Which takes us to the early 90s and Warhammer 4th/Blood Bowl 3rd edition. Animals were out. Skaven had proven popular and stayed. Beastmen were totally toned down to one universal shape (goats) and the Slann were to go.

They were replaced by the Lizardmen. Who were no longer cave dwelling brainless slug eaters but totally revamped. Revamped into a style to cash in on the popular Jurassic Park franchise. With this Slann's history was totally changed.

Before: Helpers of the old ones that were left on the planet to over see creation. Either left by design to fight the incursion of chaos or the old ones could not come back for them. Over time they devolved into beings only marginally more intelligent than Elves.

After: May have been the old ones, may not have been the old ones. With the Chaos gate crash very few remained. Those that did were extremely old but powerful mage casters that were so old and venerable they were carried around or hovered around on their own magic. Overtime they lost the use of their legs entirely.

And so GW has totally reinvented the Slann. There's no way they want the ridicule of "Here we go again, 'Warhammer farm.' First the goats now the frogs and soon I hear the fish are coming!"

Slann most definitely sit in expensive one off fat metal (I guess plastic now) boxsets. They do not leap around astrogranite like super frogmen ninja turtles (which is a massive shame, so much potential).

Last edited by harvestmouse on %b %29, %2016 - %17:%Jan; edited 1 time in total

Harad

Joined: May 11, 2014

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 17:39

Harvestmouse, I'm ignorant and you are knowledgeable. I've long been interested in why squats got chopped. I loved them as a kid and then they disappeared. Probably a little tedious for you to rehash as you say 'famously' but would you mind as it's something I've wanted to know for a while?

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 17:58

There was no real reason as far as I know, it was just because they had weak fluff. Initially 40k was Warhammer in space. So at the start everything got a sci-fi make over and put into 40k. Even the Zoats for crying out loud.

The only things that didn't were the Ansell range, and by this time it was clear his lines had a different future (Wargames Foundry).

So for 1st edition 40k, they were really looking for Fantasy gamers to come over and play their favourite race in 40k. That was the carrot.

By second edition things had evolved a lot. However it was still (creatively, not sales) living in the shadow of Warhammer. It needed to evolve and to do that it had to remove the stereotypical fantasy shackles.

A lot of the fantasy elements were removed for second edition. Beastmen lines were fringed (beastmen, ratlings, Ogryns etc). Orks and Eldar stayed, the fluff was massively strong for them. However the Squats were not, in fact the fluff was rather weak.

They really didn't fit the classic profile (where as Orks and Eldar kept the character but with a new twist). Squats were........mechanics. Far weaker than a Space Marine in a fight and their fighting style actually was..........actually what the flak is their fighting style?

Let me see? They're Imperial Guard right? Yep. Ok.......oh and they're like hairy biker gangs! Hairy Biker gangs? And then there's this Hearth Guard thingy that looks after the king and might include old dead spirits..........and mechanical stuff. Oh right, they must be super cool? No.....not really.........Space Marines get all the cool stuff.

There just wasn't enough there. Which was brought home when the new line of Epic Squats bombed. It was awful...........there main weapon was a long train thingy....

They were never that popular. The cancelling of them kind of brought a hysteria. Either how can you remove one of the corner stone races from a fantasy game or because there were some nice figure lines. I guess in the late 80s there were a fair few armies, there was a cheap plastic boxset. But not many stuck with them, there wasn't much you could do....All the other armies had something more exciting. Squats were simply luke warm Imperial Guard.

So I guess it was a mixture of trying to make 40k its own game and Squats just were not Dwarven enough. The fluff was weak and not very specific. They had scope, they should have been given some super mechanical stuff. They also should have been given a slot in Space Hulk. Some of the power armoured Squat/Chaos Squat lines were fantastic.

But no........they were given a land train and an epic line. I believe the designer of Epic Squats was taken behind the stable and given a nice cup of double barrel shotgun.

However once a race is gone, it's properly gone. They won't even discuss it. Which lead to more jumping on the Squat train wagon and hyped the story even more. I'm sure by the end, most of the Squat supporters hadn't even played Squats or were around for them.

http://www.stephane.info/res/gallery/ne_squat/_squat_land_train_2.jpg Chooo chooo!

Harad

Joined: May 11, 2014

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 18:13

Thanks I just remember some cool pictures Smile

I was very young. That was interesting and informative, thank you.

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Jan 29, 2016 - 18:20

I remember I bought a Squat army. It was after a guy melted my warhammer dwarfs........and I didn't have the heart to recollect fantasy.

I was totally confused when I went to the shop. First the plastic boxset was labelled 'Space Dwarfs'........still trying to hook the fantasy gamers. But all the blisters were Squats. My initially conclusion was that Squats must be Chaos Dwarfs........so I wasn't sure I could use them together. To make an army, you had to add a lot of human stuff like a Rhino. You couldn't take a Predator or anything worthwhile like that.

I soon moved on to Eldar and Orks..........then binned the game in favour of Blood Bowl.

I also remember getting really excited about the Ork epic truks. They looked amazingly cheap metal 40k figures!!! It didn't seem very clear in White Dwarf the were 2 different games. It just looked that Epic was 'epically' big games played on a big table and photos taken at a distance.