FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 18:00

NerdBird wrote:

Painstate brings up good points about being able to use your money but could you imagine in a tournament where the teams are equal TV and the one team has 1 million in gold and the other nothing. SO the team with lots of money throws in enough to get a wizard, 2 babes, an extra apo, a star and some cards? Shocked

Wait, what?

Ok, so both teams have the same TV, got it. One team has 1 million on Gold the other no gold.

So

Equal TV.

Lets just stick to what I wrote. So if a team has 1 million in gold. That means he has 50TV tied up just in gold alone. But they are equal in TV.

SO the team that has no gold has now 50TV in terms of SPP, that means the team with no gold has 250 SPP on their roster MORE than the team with 1 Million gold. So the team with no gold has a 16 man roster where each of them have on average 15.62 SPP per player, not including the SPP already on the roster. So you most likely would be facing a 0 gold team with 16 players all having 2+ skills on them.

1TV per 5SPP. The old TR rules.

So the team with 1 million gold, sure could blow a huge wad of gold BUT their team is so out skilled on the rosters it would be ugly beyond belief.

My point in this.

If FUMBBL went back to the days of calculating TV the same way it was with TR. You would not have teams running around with million gold stashes. They would be giving up way to much TV in terms of SPP to have that luxury.

So, it is a trade off. Do you want more gold? or do you want more SPP on your roster?

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keggiemckill

Joined: Oct 07, 2004

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 18:13

Shraaaag wrote:

I still haven't got a legend Sad

Allthough I can see the point of too many legends, I hated the aging rule as it was too random.
I had a league team where the two first player that skilled also aged (-st and niggling), This gutted the team. Ofc had it been in a perpetual division like Ranked or Black Box I could try to rebuild or just start over, but since it was league play, I prefered that things got decided on the pitch rather than after the match.

I remember that in LRB4 it wasn't only the aging that kept people from amassing legends. Skill points was calculated into team rating, which meant you would try to avoid too many spp hogs. Wasn't Mr. T worth the same value as an experienced team?

Yeah I hated Aging. but if it were brought back, getting a Niggle wouldn't be that horrific. Niggles used to be a 50/50 chance to wether your player came to play. That was a huge problem when you had set up a match, and gave out inducements, only to see you were lower than your opponent all of a sudden. It was a complete retirement of that player. I hated it. Now a days Niggles are not that bad. I keep niggled players all the time.

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MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 18:21

Ageing was bad because a player could age even when rolling his first skill, a smart ageing check could start at 3rd or 4th skill roll.
Don't forget that the more skills and stats a player stacks, the more unbalanced he gets (clawpombers, natural one turners, stat freaks).

Last edited by MattDakka on %b %08, %2016 - %18:%Feb; edited 1 time in total

keggiemckill

Joined: Oct 07, 2004

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 18:24

Agreed MattDakka.

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fidius

Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 19:40

I love the game. But here's my long list of things that bug me about it in its current form:

1) Killstack too easy to get, and focused only on S/S+M teams
2) Big Guys' deadliness maxes out at exactly the same place as a Human Blitzer with POMB. They need to be the deadliest players in the game
3) Nurgle is Chaos with perks. Chaos should be the deadliest race, but with an element of downside (a la Frenzy).
4) Tackle defeats Dodge.
4a) Dodge is a 2-fer skill that benefits AG4 more than anyone. Elves' domination is mostly due to this synergy.
4b) Stunty cannot compete with Dwarves; Amazons to a lesser extent.
5) Goblins are worse at fouling / cheating than nearly any other race.
6) Natural one-turners
7) Bad CAS luck can ruin a new team's season.
8 ) Variance on d6 gold roll too high.
9) Skill canon, aka certain skills >> other skills
10) Immortal players
11) POMB makes no fluff sense
12) Stalling / clock management
13) Would prefer more skill choice
14) Needs Tzeentch/Slaanesh; Chaos should be Khorne; Pact should be Chaos race-diverse
15) Pact / Dwarf / Amazon need overhaul
16) Decay needs overhaul
17) Perfect D needs tweak
18 ) 10k pricing

JellyBelly

Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 19:49

NerdBird wrote:

I appreciate reading the feedback, especially from Wreckage and HM as they have vast knowledge of the game. Painstate brings up good points about being able to use your money but could you imagine in a tournament where the teams are equal TV and the one team has 1 million in gold and the other nothing. SO the team with lots of money throws in enough to get a wizard, 2 babes, an extra apo, a star and some cards? Shocked

This is exactly how it worked back in LRB4 (before inducements). I distinctly remember playing in my first SMACK final, where my opponent had enough gold hoarded to buy Count Luthor and I didn't. Suffice it to say, it was a pretty one-sided game!

I think Painstate's suggestion of counting the treasury towards TV (coupled with the inducement system) is an interesting one though.

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pythrr

Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 19:52

MattDakka wrote:

Ageing was bad because a player could age even when rolling his first skill, a smart ageing check could start at 3rd or 4th skill roll.
Don't forget that the more skills and stats a player stacks, the more unbalanced he gets (clawpombers, natural one turners, stat freaks).

yup - a modified aging system would work. perhaps the first roll at 51 spps?

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mrt1212

Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 19:59

I dont get the need for aging to be honest. Legends require you sacrifice a huge amount of time, distributing SPPs unevenly subverting skill advancement on teammates and the reward for that is right in line with that commitment.

MisterFurious

Joined: Aug 11, 2010

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:07

PainState wrote:

My last thought before I run off.

Spiraling Expenses is very obviously a rule that some dude came up with while sitting on the toilet trying to come up with some rules for NON TT tournaments, like FUMBBL. It was a hair brain idea brought on by constipation.

Way back when I first started playing this game, the Spiraling Expenses rule was something that caught my eye as something that seemed pretty stupid to me. To me, it seemed like it was a rule that punished good players that managed to keep their guys alive. I asked about it on the Talk Fantasy Football forum and Galak Starscraper said some stuff about hoarding gold being a massive problem and Spiraling Expenses was there to stop it and all that. It was very apparent that he had a huge bug up his ass about teams hoarding gold and he didn't want it. At the time, I was playing on stuntyleeg.com and Funnyfingers also had a huge problem with teams hoarding gold and he was thinking about putting some rules in to stop it but then Fumbbl finally put in the new client and everyone came here. I never really understood why it was such a problem to them, but it is. So, anyway, I think it was Galak who was sitting on the toilet and coming up with that rule because, for some reason, he has a dread fear of Dwarf teams with vaults like Scrooge McDuck. I think that everything they've done to stop Orcs and Dwarfs from hoarding gold has really had a far harder impact on the Elf teams and really hasn't done anything to stop the Orcs and Dwarfs from amassing wealth. I asked what the big deal was about teams hoarding gold because it didn't seem like a big deal to me, but I never got a really good answer.

It also seemed to me that he, and most of the people on the BBRC, want teams to continuously start over from scratch. They wanted players to constantly build up a team, have it get wrecked at some point and then start over. Not everyone wants to do that, though. Some people just want to play one team and stick with it, but it seems like the rules were written to stop that. "Play THIS way, not THAT way!" Some people are attracted to this game for the BLOOD and some are attracted to the BOWL, but it does feel like the rules are slanted heavily towards the BLOOD side of things. As most people know, the rules were written for table top and not for environments like FUMBBL and Cyanide, which is were almost all the problems with the rules come in to play.

Matthueycamo

Joined: May 16, 2014

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:12

NerdBird wrote:

All the problems I agree with.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:16

mrt1212 wrote:

I dont get the need for aging to be honest. Legends require you sacrifice a huge amount of time, distributing SPPs unevenly subverting skill advancement on teammates and the reward for that is right in line with that commitment.

Huge amount of time?!
Come on, there are a lot of clawpomb legends with CRP, don't portray them as hardly to obtain players when they can get easy and fast SPPs just by clicking "yes" on Piling On pop up window and they are even protected from retaliation by laying on the pitch.
Laughing

The Ageing purpose is to make Legends rare, as they should rightly be and, from a game balance point of view, players with too many skills tend to break the game and bring it closer to sheer dice rolling than to tactical positioning.

mrt1212

Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:25

MattDakka wrote:

mrt1212 wrote:

I dont get the need for aging to be honest. Legends require you sacrifice a huge amount of time, distributing SPPs unevenly subverting skill advancement on teammates and the reward for that is right in line with that commitment.

Huge amount of time?!
Come on, there are a lot of clawpomb legends with CRP, don't portray them as hardly to obtain players when they can get easy and fast SPPs just by clicking "yes" on Piling On pop up window and they are even protected from retaliation by laying on the pitch.
Laughing

The Ageing purpose is to make Legends rare, as they should rightly be and, from a game balance point of view, players with too many skills tend to break the game and bring it closer to sheer dice rolling than to tactical positioning.

Just because you're on the receiving end of clawpomb doesn't mean you can ignore the 100+ hours of gameplay to get there.

Also, this entire game is sheer dice rolling. When will you finally stop thinking you're playing a version of sport chess?

Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %08, %2016 - %20:%Feb; edited 1 time in total

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:28

mrt1212 wrote:

MattDakka wrote:

mrt1212 wrote:

I dont get the need for aging to be honest. Legends require you sacrifice a huge amount of time, distributing SPPs unevenly subverting skill advancement on teammates and the reward for that is right in line with that commitment.

Huge amount of time?!
Come on, there are a lot of clawpomb legends with CRP, don't portray them as hardly to obtain players when they can get easy and fast SPPs just by clicking "yes" on Piling On pop up window and they are even protected from retaliation by laying on the pitch.
Laughing

The Ageing purpose is to make Legends rare, as they should rightly be and, from a game balance point of view, players with too many skills tend to break the game and bring it closer to sheer dice rolling than to tactical positioning.

Just because you're on the receiving end of clawpomb doesn't mean you can ignore the 100+ hours of gameplay to get there.

Oooh... so much time, so much commitment, so much hard thinking to achieve a clawpomb legend, roflmao...
it must be rewarded, you are right! Very Happy

Yes, let's turn BB into a MMORPG and let's award sheer and dumb SPPs grinding!

In this not-only-sheer-dice-rolling game some coaches try to minimize the random factor and gravitate more towards the positioning aspect, especially when few skills are involved, you know.
Winning a game just because you depitched your opponent or one turned with a natural one turner is not exactly the game at its finest, at least for coaches who have a brain.

mrt1212

Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:35

There should be a reward for commitment to dealing with people like you, I think legendary players is sufficient.

harvestmouse

Joined: May 13, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:36

Yeah it was before your time, however I think you'd get it. Aging helped to balance teams. You would prefer to put a skill on a weaker player, rather than age a good player. It meant that teams were more natural (although made artificially) with stars, rising stars and rookies.

Rather than what we have now with major stars and a conveyor belt of rookies. It also meant you'd play bigger rosters to avoid mvp and aging.

I know I know it sounds awful on paper but in practice it was good.