| Poll |
| Is CLAWPOMB really a problem? |
| Yes, absolutley |
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55% |
[ 464 ] |
| No, Chaos Dwarfs Disagree |
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20% |
[ 174 ] |
| Still Haven't Decided |
|
8% |
[ 75 ] |
| Pie! |
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15% |
[ 127 ] |
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| Total Votes : 840 |
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Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
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 Posted:
Jan 21, 2016 - 11:23 |
 
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So, I think any of these suggestions need to consider another thing that is normally ignored. Love it or hate it, clawpomb destroys players and so plays a large part in keeping the team TVs in the range that they are most normally found. Any adjustment to cpomb to make it less powerful will, by definition, increase the average TV.
If one proposes altering cpomb (and I think I might agree), then I think one also has to say that either a) they are happy for teams to operate at different TVs or b) propose how they will otherwise be kept in check. Whilst I think the game mechanic needs some thought I also think having TV 2500 orcs and dwarves running around might be too much. |
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jdm
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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| Posted:
Jan 21, 2016 - 11:24 |
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Much like frenzy cannot be taken with grab, how about a player can only have 2 from claw, PO and MB? Wouldn't hurt ogres, orcs etc. |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 21, 2016 - 13:18 |
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My thoughts:
1. Mutations should be random
This will slow the rate of production of clawpombers plus generate more interesting builds. Of course there will always be some lucky sod who relentlessly rolls claw, thus you will get the occasional destroyer team.
2. Too much upside, not enough downside to PO
You get the positional advantage by getting the option to remain standing if you don't like the chances/odds (e.g. mighty blow not passed through to injury roll or armour roll was unsuccessful).
Either a) force PO choice before armour/injury rolls (although I don't like this for similar reasons to
3) or b) make an armour roll for the attacker on PO and stun if it passes to at least slow them down a little.
Another possibility is to hand a dice roll to PO in a similar vein to jump up. On a 2+ the PO is successful and works as it does now. On a 1 the attacker misses. You could go further and say, on a miss, that the attacker hurts themselves (av/inj roll) with a potential turnover. I don't know if that's balanced, I'm just musing.
3. The mechanic doesn't make much sense
I get the 'knock them down, and jump on them if they are not injured' part. That sits fine. It's the rerolling of the injury roll that irks me. If you've knocked them down but not hurt them, you get to bypass armour on the PO? Really? In this regard, I somewhat liked the old PO mechanic - adding ST to the AV roll - although that was a 1 time roll (as opposed to a 2 time roll with the current mechanic).
4. Buff sneaky git
It is such a weak skill. Fouling is already somewhat pathetic compared to previous rulesets, but the fact that the so called 'fouling buff' skill is hardly worth taking means there's just too much protection for those on the floor.
On a 4+ a sneaky git should sneak back onto the bench. This should be in addition to the existing 'no sending off on failed AV doubles'.
I'm on the fence about making sneaky git 'like guard' for fouls. That might be over powered.
5. Stunty/titchy buffs
It always irked me that tiny creatures get hurt when failing dodges. They are tiny. The wouldn't be able to kill themselves by falling over. I really think stunty players should only ever be stunned from a failed dodge (if passing armour) and titchy players should survive failed landings too (again, stun only if passing armour).
That wouldn't make stunty/titchy competitive, but it would make them suck slightly less. Maybe this seems out of place in a clawpomb discussion, but sometimes the cure to a ruleset ailment isn't by shredding the rule in question but by giving the sufferers of the rule a bit of a bonus somewhere else. TPOMB would still suck for stunty but they'd just have a few more players staying on the pitch in those games. |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:29 |
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Sort nerf to CPOMB and POMB:
When you pile on, you won't get SPPs for the casualty  |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:34 |
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| plasmoid wrote: | Sort nerf to CPOMB and POMB:
When you pile on, you won't get SPPs for the casualty |
This is actually a buff to the extreme teams. Think about it. Once killstack is there, you dont really need SPP.
I would prefer the MB only on injury. As the main issue with cpomb and pomb are the pseudo armor 6 (from7), this would help a lot. Less armor break means more killers standing, then more will get actually hit and maimed. |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:43 |
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...But it would be harder to get the stack in the first place.
It would also be harder to flesh out with Block, Frenzy, Jugger and Tackle.
Currently it's the (too easy) way to legend. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:55 |
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Piling on is usually the last skill taken for the killstack. So it would not stop making it at all, not even slowing down a single bit. On the other hand, it would slow down getting the other skills.
Too easy way to legend - this is arbitrary, and subject to free interpretation. Sorry, i dont accept that. Having a legend label on 3 players does not change much. Having the right skill at right players do. So the label is unimportant. The value of skills are important. |
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ErobererZim
Joined: Dec 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:58 |
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Mutations like in the old Mordheim Game, praying to the gods of Chaos, Roll 2W6 1-2 Player Dead, 3-6 noone answered u choose a normal skill. ,7 Claw or Horns, 8 Extra Arms or Two Heads, 9 Disturbing Prestents or Foul Appereance, Tents or Very Long Legs, 10 +MA/+AV, 11 +AG, 12 +STR or choose a Mutation.
Or make the Claw and PO like Leader, but only 1time use per Turn.
And PO must be used. |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 10:08 |
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....Even so, I'd rather deal with a CPOMBer, than a CPOMBer with Block and Frenzy (or Jump Up - shudder).
While I do see the argument for TV inefficiency from skill bloat and DPs (i.e. Should fouling give SPPs), I think there are a lot of very useful skills to be obtained on a (C)POMBer - meaning no bloat, just value.
Cheers
Martin |
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plasmoid
Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 10:13 |
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....but admittedly it was a suggestion made in jest.
I much prefer the CRP+ solution. Including over the one you prefer.
Mighty Blow was already nerfed from +1 and +1, to +1 or +1.
Nerfing it even further is, IMO, neutering all those normal bashers (and Big Guys)
CRP+ solution (PiOn on injury only) does much of what you want. It keeps PiOn players standing. And it makes PiOn traps possible - just like Frenzy traps - because the PiOn player will be scared to follow up when he doesn't know for sure that he can go prone.
Cheers
Martin |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 10:22 |
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Yes, the PO on injury only is also a clever solution. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 11:33 |
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At some point somebody is going to have to sum up what's written in here. A 56 page thread without structure is basically like a graveyard of thoughts.
Guess that's also what it is meant to be. |
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delusional
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 11:52 |
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| ErobererZim wrote: | Mutations like in the old Mordheim Game, praying to the gods of Chaos, Roll 2W6 1-2 Player Dead, 3-6 noone answered u choose a normal skill. ,7 Claw or Horns, 8 Extra Arms or Two Heads, 9 Disturbing Prestents or Foul Appereance, Tents or Very Long Legs, 10 +MA/+AV, 11 +AG, 12 +STR or choose a Mutation.
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Aside from the CPOMB issue. I think that Mutations are broke. What they are at the moment is extra skill choices for skill choice rich teams. Chaos, pact and Skaven don't need more skill access.
I like the idea of random mutations. I like it better if they perhaps had disadvantages with advantages. I.e. Claws, no hands, Prehensile tail -1mv, horns -1 dodge. and perhaps these happen along with normal skill progression. That way you get real Freaks of players, not superplayers at high TV.
Also the idea that things like +1 to dodge should be a mutation over a skill is nonsense. we need player development to lean that way. Mutations should be extremely good and bad, not just a +1 whatever. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 13:03 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | At some point somebody is going to have to sum up what's written in here. A 56 page thread without structure is basically like a graveyard of thoughts.
Guess that's also what it is meant to be. |
Indeed. It makes people feel better though. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Feb 10, 2016 - 13:34 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | Wreckage wrote: | At some point somebody is going to have to sum up what's written in here. A 56 page thread without structure is basically like a graveyard of thoughts.
Guess that's also what it is meant to be. |
Indeed. It makes people feel better though. |
Exactly. Nothing like a good old moan. 
Maybe a prioritised list of favourite options in case Kalimar manages to find a little free time. |
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