Cavan
Joined: Jan 19, 2016
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 Posted:
Feb 25, 2016 - 00:20 |
 
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So this is my somewhat flailing (and first ever) attempt at a Bret roster that I would personally like to see. Criticism (expected) and appreciated.
The two new positionals :
Shield Bearer 0-2 4-3-2(3?)-9 (Maybe even 10, that'd be fun but probably pointless) No Hands, Stand Firm,
(G?)S AP
cost - undecided, probably 80-90K
A slightly more reliable backbone. Numbers of these or other higher cost pieces could still be reduced to allow more room for mandatory peasant action.
Mounted Knight (Mounty) 0-1 6-4-2(3?)-8, No Hands, Loner, Mighty Blow, 'charge', sprint
S GAP
charge - If this player is not adjacent to an opposing player, gain +1 STR and +1 MA when blitzing.
Cost undecided (probably roughly on par with regular big) guy.
Basically a dedicated pseudo big guy blitzer with a management and counter play aspect to it.
Other more general changes (nothing super new)
Yeomen - As normal except 0-2(0-3?), skill allowance on normals switched to GP rather than GS to promote the idea that they are there to protect and serve by getting the ball to the catchers while being a liability as actual runners because of wrestle.
Knights - As normal except 0-3 and skill choice on normals switched to GS instead of GP
Peasants - Peasanty.
So yeah..my vague attempt at providing Brets with something slightly more unique about them and their potential roster variations. I also really like the idea of a team having more no hands mixed in thematically, even if it functions nearly the same as having low agility anyway.
Anywhere I have put a question mark is something I am genuinely unsure of. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 25, 2016 - 01:43 |
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These bits I like.........but then it's kind of what a lot are suggesting
"Yeomen - As normal except 0-2(0-3?), skill allowance on normals switched to GP rather than GS to promote the idea that they are there to protect and serve
Knights - As normal except 0-3 and skill choice on normals switched to GS instead of GP?
"So yeah..my vague attempt at providing Brets with something slightly more unique about them and their potential roster variations"
If you want something unique, whey redo a human roster? Try a new race for something unique.
Horses for me are just a total no. They don't look good and why would you be allowed to ride a horse?! |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Feb 25, 2016 - 02:02 |
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Well, I don't know much about anything, but maybe the mounted knight should be a Grail Knight and the others Knights errant. |
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Tomay
Joined: Apr 26, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 25, 2016 - 02:29 |
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I kind of like my version of Bretonnia.
0-16 Linemen 6337 Wrestle 50k G|ASP
0-2 Chaplain 6338 Leader 70k GP|AS
0-4 Yeomen 7337 Dodge 70k GA|SP
0-2 Knights 6339 Block, Dauntless 100k GS|AP |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 25, 2016 - 22:35 |
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Another boring harvestmouse monologue on my feelings on a Bretonnian roster
Firstly player and positional names. The human roster doesn't represents humans from the Old World and those that are now based on the New World. For humans not to be represented by the human roster there has to be a special reason.
1. They come from a nation with specialist skills (e.g. Norse)
2. They play for a professional team that has specialist traits (e.g. Bright Crusaders)
3. They have been physically changed somehow (e.g. Chaos Marauders)
Even if they do fit one of the criteria above, they also need a good reason not to fit the regular positions of the above.
1. They are specialist in some way (e.g. a frenzy berserker)
2. They are kitted out differently (e.g. a weakly armoured thrall)
Bretonnia and their make up
As they're representing a nation not a species, I really don't see the hang up a lot of the community have with a Warhammer naming policy over using professional player names. I'm not saying they HAVE TO BE Warhammer named, but it seems pretty pointless. Otherwise it's just another human team with no national theme.
So what positional names could we use and if we use them what should they portray?
Bretonnia in Warhammer is a little bit behind most other nations regarding technology. Where the Empire represents renaissance nations around the 1500s with some more modern technology; Bretonnia represents a late Medieval nation from around the 4th crusade and later 1200-1350, with some mythical elements.
Geographically Bretonnia represents France on the Old World map and naming policy tends to follow that. It could however be represented a fair few feudal medieval societies. Basically though it's a 2 tier structure Nobles/everybody else.
The nobles are very high and everybody else is very low. However everybody else can raise themselves from the gutter serving as servants. The rest of the low is about as low as you could possibly get.
Names of positional players that could be used
These are the names that are used or have been used as Bretonnian units.
3rd edition Warhammer was (I believe) the first time that they appeared as a GW full nation, which is rather late compared to most of the other nations. To which they were still rather experimental and nothing from the naming policy then exists now.
However we can split them in to 3 categories
Dregs of the gutter
Rascals
Rapscallions
Villains
Servants
Ribalds
Arblastiers
Brigands
Chasseurs De La Mort
Nobles
Chavaliers D'Honneur
Noblesse D'Epee
Chevaliers De Notre Dame De Bataille
Chevaliers Rampants
Pro: There are some really nice names there
Con: It's all in French
None of the names are well known.
There are some pretty nice names here though. 'Rapscallions' or 'Rascals' for example. Chasseurs is also nice as it means a fast moving soldier (runner maybe)? Chevalier is another good example.
So we could use Rascals for linemen. Chasseurs for Runners and then Chevaliers for Knights/blitzers.
Probably it's better to stick with what we know though. Which means 4th edition Warhammer and onwards.
Bretonnian armies of 4th edition onward were (I say were as Warhammer is now dead) weren't bit on Peasants (Peasants don't go to war). However there were Peasant Bowmen were the gutter dwellers I guess.
So:
Gutter
Peasants
Servants
Men-at-Arms
Squires
Game Keepers
Nobles
Paladins (Hero)
Knights Errant
Knights of the Realm
Questing Knights
Grail Knights
Errants are Knights in training. Knights of the Realm are your standard Knights. Questing Knights are those who go on a glorious quest. Grail Knights are Knights who have succeeded in all of these and go on the ultimate quest of all of them. The quest for the Holy Grail.
Now Questing Knights and especially Grail Knights are SERIOUSLY bad. Seriously bad, up there with Chaos Knights in badness (badness meaning good .....but Chaos Warriors aren't good, but they are good in not being terrible you know? Bad ass dudes!)
So.........we have a lot of names, but what positions should we have? The big question is about Linemen. Bretonnians wouldn't really want to send the gutter onto the pitch. However in BloodBowl you can't have a team of super positionals....it just wouldn't work.
So I think we do have to use the gutter of humanity living in Bretonnia as our linemen. Names we have a lot of options above:
Peasants, Rascals, Villians (villian in French is a bit different to English so probably no) Rapscallions.
A basic human BloodBowl player has the stats 6 3 3 8 (G). There has to be a good reason to change our Peasant/Rascal from these stats. A Thrall (who is a pretty poor excuse for a human being) is 6 3 3 7 (G). He has little to no armour but even still cannot move any faster. A human catcher is ST2, but he's very specialized. There's no reason to think the dregs are weaker than a standard human.
Therefore I believe there is no fluff reason why a Peasant can be any but:
Peasant 6 3 3 7
AV7 linemen team really do suffer, which means the roster is weaker than a standard human roster (no harm in that) from the start. It does give us a little bit of room for our positionals.
Servants
What can we use our servants for? These are the lower/semi positionals. How could we implement this? How about a 'fetcher'? A player sent to fetch the ball and give it to the nobles. This to me screams a 'Runner' positional. I cannot really see a servant fitting any other roles. Maybe a 'hold the line' type such as a Man-at-Arms, but I prefer the runner.
A runner is a position already in BloodBowl. The Dwarf and Dark Elf (lets ignore the Norse runner as he just confuses things) describes the positional quite well.
1. Uses less armour so that they can move faster.
2. Has pass access so can develop as a thrower but doesn't start with passing skills.
Names:
(Yeoman is the recognised used name), Squires, Ribalds, Game Keepers, Brigands, Chassuers (very fitting but in French), Ribalds are all possible.
Stats:
Less armour more speed and a 'semi' thrower. So for me this is
Squire (I'd love Chassuer) 7 3 3 7 Sure hands (P/G)
Noble positionals specialist Skills
As humans living in a nation that actually fits the standard human roster. There's not really many specialist skills. However Knights do have 1 specific quality: Courage.
Courage is displayed by being fearless in battle and never backing down from a battle, no matter how tough the opponent. A little like a Troll Slayer without the craziness.
We can represent with Dauntless and/or Stand Firm. Will take on anything/Won't back down from any fight. These I feel are the only 2 skills we can give to our 'upper positinals' (the knight types).
Knight of the Realm fit the standard Blitzer type well. Do we need 'of the Realm' bit though.....it's a little long winded. So why not shorten it to 'Knight' only? Statwise they're regular blitzers........or blitzers with dauntless, it adds to the price but we've saved on our line and semi positionals.
Knight 7 3 3 8 Block, Dauntless (GS)
Lastly we have our 'super Knight'. Rivals to the legendary Chaos Warrior. We could call them Grail or Questing Knights. We can give them extra armour, we can also model them on the old Blocker type positional. So extra armour/less speed (due to the armour) and less agility maybe. For me we have:
Questing Knight
4 4 2/3 9 (block?), Stand Firm, Dauntless (get Dauntless for free as it's not that useful on ST4.
Which means my take on an authentic Bretonnian team that fits the fluff, Bretonnia and BloodBowl is:
0-16 Peasants 6 3 3 7 (G)
0-2 Squires 7 3 3 7 Sure hands (GP)
0-4 Knights 7 3 3 8 Block, Dauntless (GS)
0-2 Questing Knights 4 4 2 9 Block, Dauntless, Stand firm (GS)
This is the roster I use. They've played around 40 games and doing quite well. They do have an ST5 blodge Questing Knight and a kick ass Knight. Also my league allows to hire stars for the full season and Erik Kantona always does well for them.
And one last thing. No %^%^ing horses.........they're just a no. I think this also explains my problems and what I think is wrong with the current roster used by PBeM and Cyanide. |
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Orkblud
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2016 - 21:33 |
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Useless tidbit: 'Chasseur' means 'hunter'. |
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Tomay
Joined: Apr 26, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2016 - 21:50 |
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I think you missed a chance to include their religious side as well. In WFB their use of prayers at the start of a battle is a trademark, hence why I included a Chaplain. I also think Knights are too fast for their armour and don't need repearing with questing knights. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2016 - 22:33 |
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| Orkblud wrote: | | Useless tidbit: 'Chasseur' means 'hunter'. |
Yup it does. Military wise though they're light cavalry or infantry; perfect as a runner to me.
| Tomay wrote: | | I think you missed a chance to include their religious side as well. In WFB their use of prayers at the start of a battle is a trademark, hence why I included a Chaplain. |
You could do I guess. I think though that Blood Bowl needs more simplified themes than Warhammer though. You have Paladins also. I like the noble/servant/serf theme though. It fits the feudal chivalry, which is the main theme.
I think there's room for a religious roster or maybe more. Bright Crusaders are supposedly based in Bretonnia, which could be a religious themed roster. Or you could do a Cult of Sigmar. I think by making this roster religious you put too many themes on one roster, where you could have different distinct rosters.
| Tomay wrote: | | I also think Knights are too fast for their armour |
Mine? They're regular human blitzers with dauntless.
'Repearing'? |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2016 - 23:08 |
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I think the bretonnia team should look like this
0-16 peasants 6 3 3 8 G 50k
0-4 squires 8 2 3 7 dodge catch GA 70k
0-2 Knights 6 3 3 8 pass sure hands GP 70k
0-4 Ka Nig It 7 3 3 8 Block GS 90k
0-1 ogre
rr 50k |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2016 - 23:11 |
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The 0-4 positional is really silly.
Not to mention English. |
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Tomay
Joined: Apr 26, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 26, 2016 - 23:57 |
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| Tomay wrote: | | I also think Knights are too fast for their armour |
Mine? They're regular human blitzers with dauntless.[/quote]
Human blitzers are their best positional and you're adding another skill plus giving them a few str 4 players. I see Bretonnian Knights as heavily armored versions of Human Blitzers. I also don't see why they would be strength 4. It's neither here nor there though worrying too much about it all I suppose. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2016 - 00:56 |
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The downside of the Bret roster is the large amount of AV7. They balance that with good positionals. Yeah I see no reason for not going ma6/av9 on knights though. However aren't human blitzers already knights in a way? So I'm not fussed. I'm also happy to take of the dauntless. It's more to make them different than regular humans as well as it's not a massively influential skill.
Questing and Grail Knights are seriously tough. As I said, up there with Chaos Warriors (almost and in some versions). Humans also used to get blockers. So it's middling between the 2. CWs (who get their power from their rewards and armour) and the blocker profile (4 4 2 9). |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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| Posted:
Feb 27, 2016 - 01:00 |
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I think that is nice work from HM. The chaplain can be the apothecary. |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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Feb 27, 2016 - 01:05 |
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I like dauntless on the Knights - fully justified from the fluff and as you say, otherwise it is just a human team with AV7 linemen and blockers in for catchers. Player costs on HM's roster 40K, 70K, 100K and 120K I guess with 50K rerolls. Looks like job done to me! |
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