Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
|
 Posted:
Mar 24, 2016 - 05:54 |
 
|
| Dach wrote: | | For me, it's a standard on 2th double on Big Guys. Block being the first. |
I dunno, I like Blodge + Stand Firm, Break Tackle, and Guard on my big guys. I'd have to take Pro as a 3rd double, after block and dodge, unless another skill (say, Tentacles on a Pact Troll) was a better option.
| Kahvie wrote: | | Only time I take pro over block for a big guy is with treemen. Cuts the stand root almost in half. |
Again, would fall into 2nd double (at best) for me, with Jump Up being the first. |
|
|
Odin1981
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
|
| Posted:
Mar 29, 2016 - 09:18 |
|
| PainState wrote: | | BillBrasky wrote: | This one time at band camp I took pro, and it was REALLY funny.
Oh yeah, frenzy is good too. This is a non-sense issue I suppose. |
Well, is it?
The WMD are known for 2 things.
#1 laying out pixels into the CAS box
#2 their coach is a notorious CPOMB whore.
SO
What if?
The WMD did an experiment over a 100 matches.
They strive to take PRO on their CPOMB monstrosities at 76 SPP skill up.
Would your rep as a pixel reaper double? triple? or stay the same? |
I understand what you are trying to get at. But Frenzy is a better pro. Granted Pro as a legend skill for a killer could have merit. |
|
|
garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
|
| Posted:
Mar 29, 2016 - 10:57 |
|
Frenzy forces risk with the extra block and movement. Pro is optional if you are blocking. So you can't really say it is a better pro, it is just different. |
_________________
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
|
Odin1981
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
|
| Posted:
Mar 29, 2016 - 11:35 |
|
It is better provided you position well. It is a non conditional always successful pro. |
|
|
ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
|
| Posted:
Mar 29, 2016 - 11:36 |
|
Not if you roll 2x both down (or worse) it isn't. |
_________________
 |
|
Odin1981
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
|
| Posted:
Mar 29, 2016 - 11:39 |
|
Them's the breaks when you roll dice. Gotta live with it. And assuming said pixel has block (since I was talking about a developed killer) you have a 1/36 of it being bad. I'll take the odds that it won't be around a 1/36 or around a 2.8% chance of that happening. |
|
|
ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
|
| Posted:
Mar 29, 2016 - 11:50 |
|
There's no disagreement with that - it's just that you made the statement "always successful pro". That isn't the case. Different beasts, both potentially nice.
Your developed killer being left in base contact is also "bad" according to a lot of people. Quad skulls isn't your only point of failure here.
I'd rather have juggernaut before frenzy or pro in such a case. |
_________________
|
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
Mar 29, 2016 - 20:05 |
|
Well Frenzy is always successful in the sense that you will automatically have a chance at a second block. Pro is a 50/50 chance at a second block. We are assuming of course that the first block fails to achieve a desired result.
Frenzy though does have the 1/9 chance of rolling a combo of skull/block and against a player with block it denies the second attempt. So Frenzy is not truly automatic to get a follow up block.
******
This idea that Pro/ success/ Reroll into double skull (1/36). Well, it happens, that is the real downside to the skill. If you wanted to BUFF pro, here are two ideas.
#1 it never fails, you are pro. So in essence a player re roll every turn for him.
#2 If Pro is succesful you can choose either the first roll OR the second roll, your choice. |
_________________
Comish of the:  |
|
Odin1981
Joined: Jan 09, 2012
|
| Posted:
Mar 29, 2016 - 23:57 |
|
#1 would probably be too strong. A leader rr that you can use every turn essentially. While it might not effect low to mid level TV play high level TV it breaks down greatly. Think about it a Major team with 3-4 pro on killers. Every turn you get 3-4 RR +1 if needed by team RR. Think about how bash has the control of receiving the kick off so they get the standard 3 + blitz blocks. Said player can now RR each block. That would probably break the game.
I would humbly suggest that it be made into success on a 3+. There by allowing it in theory to work the "majority" of the time but not all the time. But not giving it a always works aspect is needed because certain style teams would get a severe up tick in removal power. Not that it would happen every game. But most here know how kill teams work and when they click right there isn't much other teams can do being down 3-4 pixels from turn 1.Not that this would happen every game but mass removal with a always successful pro would turn kill stack into a way too good chance of happening reliably.
That is just me though and my thoughts. |
|
|
KommandoNob
Joined: Apr 13, 2016
|
| Posted:
May 02, 2016 - 21:39 |
|
Pro is a great skill. Is it very difficult to gauge it against some of the more popular skills, because it's so very different from a skill like Block or Dodge.
On the theoretical end, since Pro works 50% of the time and you can use it once each turn per player, it can potentially give you 8 rerolls per match per player on average, which is quite incredible if you think about it.
The unreliable nature of Pro hampers it's effectiveness though, considering you'll usually use a normal reroll whenever the roll can result in a turnover.
What it does is it gives you a lot of freedom when it comes to rerolling less than optimal results, which don't immediately result in a turnover, but aren't what you needed either. You block someone and get 2x Push? Pro gives you another chance to roll a POW without having to blow a reroll.
It also provides you with a backup when you are out of rerolls, which can easily make the difference during clutch situations at the end of a match.
It's definitely not a bad skill. It has a lot of utility since it can potentially save your ass on all sorts of turnovers when you're out of rerolls, and at the same time give you the freedom to reroll suboptimal results. I would suggest playing with it sometime and see it's usefulness in action, since it's hard to get convinced without having actually tried it. |
|
|
Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
|
| Posted:
May 02, 2016 - 22:21 |
|
Why take Pro? Well...
Why take Pass or buy a Thrower with it? Why take Catch or buy a Catcher? Why take Sure Feet?
People see the use in all of these skills often... with Pro you have 1/2 of all these skills for the price of 1.
Why take Sure Hands? How many times do you pick up the ball?
How many times are you REALLY hit by a player with Strip Ball?
You basically get 1/2 of this skill for Pro.
Sure Dodge is a useful skill you often see. It affects Block dice against you too.
But it gets canceled out with Tackle. Tackle doesn't cancel Pro does it?
There are tons of Reroll skills for key actions. With PRO you basically get 1/2 of ALL of those skills.
PLUS you get to use it for skills like Leap, Dauntless, Jump Up, Really Stupid, Animosity or any roll.
Sure. It is not the best skill in the game. I wouldn't take it on a Double unless it was a Big Guy.
But on the right player with the right skills and used on the right way it has its place in the game.
Sure maybe you don't use it often... although you COULD conceivably use it 16 times per game.
But you don't use lots of useful skills that often.
Kick, Dirty Player, Leap, Diving Tackle, Strip Ball, Pass, Catch, Sure Hands... most are not used more than 2 or 3 times a game.
But if used CORRECTLY any of those skills can make a significant impact on the game.
Pro fits somewhere in that category. |
|
|
licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
|
| Posted:
May 03, 2016 - 00:40 |
|
You only get 1/2 the skill reroll if you use pro instead of a real reroll.
I suppose if there were a team that could take no rerolls, but had pro on all their players it would be interesting.
Barring that, Pro is garbage outside of late in a BG or Vamp build. You are always better off taking an actually useful skill instead. |
|
|
Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
|
| Posted:
May 03, 2016 - 02:16 |
|
Pro is unreliable and if an action is really important you would want to use a team reroll on it. Pro is therefore most use for non-critical dice rolls like dauntless, hypnotic gaze, jump up, rerolled pushbacks etc. It is also attractive to for players with neg-traits to pro reroll those ones, especially as these players tend to also have loner so the use of team rerolls here is unattractive. What this all means then is that whilst pro potentially has a very wide application its use with best play / team building is far more limited and situational. For these reasons it is not a core skill, although with certain players and certain builds it has it's place. Vampires, for example, who have to roll for both blood lust and hypnotic gaze are particularly strong candidates for pro to the extent that it could be considered a core skill for them alongside Block / wrestle and dodge. |
|
|
DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
|
| Posted:
May 03, 2016 - 02:25 |
|
I think the fact that Vamps may gain some benefit from pro just shows how bad they really are. If I understand the argument for including it on a Vamp, my 110k Vamp really needs to be 130k with Pro for level 2? So in order for me to get anything worthwhile on a Vamp I need to be level 3?! Just put a stake in it and be done with it... |
_________________
Using derivative humor since 2005.
 |
|
ArthurWynne
Joined: Sep 23, 2015
|
| Posted:
May 03, 2016 - 11:00 |
|
You don't take Pro first on Vampires. 31 SPP at the earliest (after Blodge) and even then I might rather take Tackle, Frenzy, Side-Step or MB -or I might roll a stat. |
|
|
|
|
War Drums?
Search
