awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
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 Posted:
Apr 29, 2016 - 16:39 |
 
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| Nextflux wrote: | | Not sure if I would use much guard on vamps because of hypnogaze |
the gaze works like Donald Trump running a nursery |
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"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"
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Harad
Joined: May 11, 2014
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Apr 29, 2016 - 16:49 |
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Pro is extremely good on vampires in my opinion:
1. blood thirst - reduces the blood thirst fails from 10-11 to 5-6.
2. hypno gaze - cheeky little boost.
3. bonus reroll - more than many teams, you'll find vampires attempting crazy plays and sometimes the true reroll goes sooner than you would like.
I have favoured pro as the third skill (failing stats etc. and having a tackler) and I think my record in the box with the vamps is passable. Whether that is causally related I am unsure (as I haven't tried a vampire team with a different approach). |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Apr 29, 2016 - 18:22 |
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Pro is very good on vamps. Take it at least half of them. |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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Apr 29, 2016 - 18:35 |
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I like pro on one +ag vamp. I think that tends to be quite useful for RR gazes and sometimes BL. Beyond that I'm not sure. I haven't really been tempted to take pro on more than 1 vamp. Sure, pro is good on vamps, but almost everything is good on vamps! If you take pro does that mean your vamp ends up without SS? Or without MB? Or without Tackle? Or without Frenzy or whatever other skill you could wish for? Does the vamp take a stat? You have only 6 slots and pro is "good" but is it better than other options? I'm not sure.
Some people do love it though, and it can work well on a few.
EDIT: So to answer the title question: No, don't take blanket pro IMO. Take it selectively depending on your options. |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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May 01, 2016 - 14:56 |
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I wouldn't use it at all; that's what TRR are for (and they ALWAYS allow the reroll). Failed lust is not the worst thing in the world since they come back and investing TV and a level in a skill that only works half the time seems like a total waste to me. There are so many other skills to take that will actually help win the game that I don't even think it rates consideration (until maybe after you've leveled the guy to where you want him and there is LITERALLY nothing left to take). |
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Using derivative humor since 2005.
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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May 01, 2016 - 17:46 |
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vicius
Joined: Sep 09, 2007
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May 01, 2016 - 18:29 |
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Pro is The best skill for vamps. I opine same as harad |
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sbr32
Joined: May 23, 2015
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May 02, 2016 - 02:26 |
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| happygrue wrote: | | EDIT: So to answer the title question: No, don't take blanket pro IMO. Take it selectively depending on your options. |
I agree. I like to Blodgestep my first 3-4 Vamps (assuming normal rolls and no stat busts) so I wouldn't take it until 4th skill at the earliest. I would consider it on those Vamps at a 6-7th skill, or on a 5-6th Vamp a bit earlier on but my Vampire teams usually detonate well before I am able to get them to that point, so that is mostly theory bowl to me. |
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Tricktickler
Joined: Jul 10, 2004
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May 04, 2016 - 02:32 |
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I like to take it on the second skill before Block but only if I already have at least 3-4 vamps with blodge. |
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mrbibitte3
Joined: Mar 28, 2013
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May 09, 2016 - 23:47 |
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I've run a full 6 Vampires team in a perpetual tabletop league (32-10-5) and Bloodlust is nowhere near as bad as it's publicized (at least if you play with enough care). I've never selected Pro but would maybe consider it on a 176 SPP Vampire (but even then). Here are my observations...
MYTH: a bite per turn
It's probably the most popular myth and it's true the math is very simplistic. 1 chance in 6 to fail Bloodlust with 6 Vampires... for a grand total of 16 bites per game. In reality, if your positioning is strong and if you can resist the temptation to reposition "just one more Vampire" all the time, you'll find that 6 Vampires are rarely all activated in a single game turn... the truth is maybe more around 4 Vampires for an average of about 10.5 bites per game
MYTH: Vampires self-destruct all the time
With 16 bites per game, Vampires should cause themselves 9 Stunned, 4 KO and 3 CAS (outing 7 Thralls a game). In reality, when played strongly, if Vampires never rerolled Bloodlusts, Thralls would suffer 10.5 bites including around 6.5 Stunned, 2.5 KO and 1.5 CAS per game. Yes, it can get terrible if you don't reroll failed Bloodlusts (who would ?), but with a 15 players team, it's just enough to absorb that much damage. In all my Vampire career, I can count on one hand the times I've begun a kickoff with less than 11 players on field.
MYTH: yes, but still, bites "should" happen more often than that !
"Against me, your Vampires never bite !" I often heard say. In reality, maybe not never, but rarely yes. From the mathematic 10.5 failed Bloodlusts per game, about half are rerolled which will leave around 5 real bites in a whole game... often in the less important moments of a game. With a reroll at hand, the odds of a Vampire failing a Bloodlust are the same as failing a Go For It while crossing the scoring line with a reroll. Sorry, it won't happen... well, okay, it will happen... but no. Well, you get the point.
MYTH: Vampires are unplayable !
"Bloodlust is so, so, so terrible !" is something we often hear. In truth, Vampires must be played with care and are the equivalent of playing a game inside a game already very complex. Or, in short, if you don't play with enough care, Vampires can truly become unplayable.
If you structure your turns well, you can mitigate Bloodlust and eliminate the need for the Pro skill... to instead chose some critical skills you're always short on. Here are some other observations.
Bloodlust doesn't prevent a Vampire to pass the ball under the opponent's nose because the bite can be covered with a Thrall carefully positioned (or if not, the Vampire will have to take a detour to throw it on a 3+ instead of a 2+ (8 success in 9 with a reroll)). Also, a lone Vampire running for the touchdown will succeed 32 times on 33 with a reroll... which doesn't warrant the use of Pro on a team that is always short on critical skills.
The only action it can truly hurt sometimes is on a Blitz. The main difference between Vampires and the other teams is that they do their critical actions with no rerolls just a bit more often (cauz Bloodlust, of course). So, they sure don't bite at the critical moments that much (1 in 33), but they are more often stuck with a "double push" on a blitz because some Vampire had a butterfly in his belly.
Almost all other Bloodlusts will be failed on secondary actions and will be rarely rerolled because of their low impact on the game (and will sometimes even be barely noticed)... Anyway, when ressources are becoming rare, many Vampires can feed on a single Stunned Thralls... and that's cool because those marvels often play better when they stay relatively grouped. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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| Posted:
May 09, 2016 - 23:52 |
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It should be noted that on fumbbl failing bloodlust with your ballcarrier and then having to bite a thrall with him (instead of whatever action you intended) can and will lose you games due to the bloodlust bug. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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| Posted:
May 10, 2016 - 00:11 |
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