DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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 Posted:
Jun 25, 2016 - 18:52 |
 
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Now I remember you! You're the Wood Elf player who just quit getting up (and apparently you did that as pro elf against another ork coach too).
I was being chatty with you (or trying to be) and as anyone who plays me knows I tend to chat about anything and everything. Far worse is when losing, just staying down and refusing to play by hitting end turn. I had half a mind to start fouling you to get you to stand up, but after turn 1 I felt a little like you got diced so I decided not to. The whole lie there thing is far worse than any commentary about die rolls. It's just being a bad sport. |
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Using derivative humor since 2005.
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jun 25, 2016 - 19:14 |
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| DarthPhysicist wrote: | | Far worse is when losing, just staying down and refusing to play by hitting end turn. I had half a mind to start fouling you to get you to stand up, but after turn 1 I felt a little like you got diced so I decided not to. The whole lie there thing is far worse than any commentary about die rolls. It's just being a bad sport. |
Not to start getting into specifics, because really the forums are not the place for that, but no. I don't tend to do it myself, but if you don't have a shot at the ball, don't have numbers and don't have a hope in hell, then just clicking end turn is pretty understandable - why should anyone cater to your spp development simply by giving you more targets to hit and dragging out a game with completely trivial moves? Feel free to foul if that's your thing, but otherwise just take advantage of the freedom to do a handoff to a positional or low AG player.
In addition, depending on timing, staying down can be a legitimate way to tie or win a game - especially so with wood elves: there not uncommonly comes a point in a woodie defence where realistically, retaining players for a one turn attempt is more paramount than actually stopping a score. At this point, simply hitting end turn not only increases the likelihood of having more players, but also gives a shot at removing an opponent (via the ref) without actually doing a thing, making an ottd easier. |
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CastleMan
Joined: Apr 26, 2013
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Jun 25, 2016 - 19:30 |
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did we get called douche bags? |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Jun 25, 2016 - 19:41 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | What was the OPs real problem? |
The lack of empathy when your opponent is getting diced.
If you have other questions, feel free to ask.
| harvestmouse wrote: | | I kinda why [...] |
Mind probing in a thread where you fail to wonder about the OP's real problem (hint: it's in the title) irons out even more irony into Fumbbl's social fabric.
As for the rest of your rant - I kinda TL;DR, as I expect you to repeat more of the same in a month or so, besides the fact that most of it is OT. I can agree, however, that players ought to curb their enthusiasm when playing online. The OP's point still stands - empathy goes a long way in providing and getting a better gaming experience.
On a half-related note, it took me a while to realize that what bugged me the most during a game was the utter lack of concern for the other player's frustration. This applies to so many situations that it would be cumbersome to list them all. The gist of it is that once I realized that the problem was more related to empathy than to the game itself, my own experience improved quite a lot. By "quite a lot," I mean going from "how do I delete my account" (like the OP's author is about to do) to "how can I organize my life to play more Fumbbl games"?
I suppose that empathy would go a long way for a better forum experience too, but I learned to curb my enthusiasm over the years regarding silly online arguments. Most people can't even read properly - sometimes, they even miss titles. Thus I rather abide by tit for tat. |
Last edited by thoralf on %b %25, %2016 - %19:%Jun; edited 3 times in total |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Jun 25, 2016 - 19:44 |
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All of that makes logical sense of course, outside of the game. When your opponent goes completely silent and stops picking up their players when things are clearly not going their way, is that not certainly as bad as complaining about die rolls? The whole thread was begun in the sense of "friendly banter" at the table top should be the goal. I agree with that part. I'm merely suggesting that everyone may not play as perfect and "friendly" match as they suppose they do. |
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Using derivative humor since 2005.
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Jun 25, 2016 - 19:46 |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Jun 25, 2016 - 19:56 |
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Not quite. I uttered a truism; not a fallacy. If anything I could be accused of saying nothing at all. Few people are as self aware of their outward behavior as they really think. That's nothing profound, and it makes no argument against the OP. It merely points out the "empathy and understanding" is a bit of a perception issue. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Jun 25, 2016 - 20:00 |
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| DarthPhysicist wrote: | | I uttered a truism; not a fallacy. |
And that's a non sequitur. It's easy to use truisms in a fallacious manner. Like most if not all ad hominem, "nobody's perfect" is simply irrelevant to the point being made. |
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keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
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Jun 25, 2016 - 20:06 |
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| TheDangerousOne wrote: | | To those who think I am some newbie ranting, in tabletop my naf name is ploppy_McPloppy. |
When you decide to go back to your famous pseudonym, just request it from the admins. Welcome to the site sir.
| Shakall wrote: | I'm glad i don't play TT if all you guys do is sit around and comment on each others dice for two hours  . Seriously though, I played here for more then ten years and I find this site to be pretty great considered how few people that truly got under my skin over the years. GO FUMBBL!! |
Likewise about this site. I do play a ton of TT, and dice talk rarely goes past a couple sentences. Complaining goes on, when someone doesn't respond. Looking someone in the face and complaining about dice, literally gets shrugged off. 99% of guys don't yell "YES!" They usually just go "/ooh, bad luck," Or "Phew, that was unlucky." When you are in a face to face situation, usually you laugh Bad luck off, together. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jun 25, 2016 - 20:11 |
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| keggiemckill wrote: | | TheDangerousOne wrote: | | To those who think I am some newbie ranting, in tabletop my naf name is ploppy_McPloppy. |
When you decide to go back to your famous pseudonym, just request it from the admins. Welcome to the site sir.
| Shakall wrote: | | I'm glad i don't play TT if all you guys do is sit around and comment on each others dice for two hours . Seriously though, I played here for more then ten years and I find this site to be pretty great considered how few people that truly got under my skin over the years. GO FUMBBL!! |
Likewise about this site. I do play a ton of TT, and dice talk rarely goes past a couple sentences. Complaining goes on, when someone doesn't respond. Looking someone in the face and complaining about dice, literally gets shrugged off. 99% of guys don't yell "YES!" They usually just go "/ooh, bad luck," Or "Phew, that was unlucky." When you are in a face to face situation, usually you laugh Bad luck off, together. |
dice don't really matter when you are savouring the sweet peaty taste of a good 20 year old Bowmore. |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Jun 25, 2016 - 20:23 |
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| thoralf wrote: | | "nobody's perfect" is simply irrelevant to the point being made. |
Like I said, I could easily be accused of saying nothing at all. |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 25, 2016 - 20:28 |
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"If most of us remain ignorant of ourselves, it's because self-knowledge is painful
& we prefer the pleasures of illusion." ~Aldous Huxley |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Jun 25, 2016 - 23:07 |
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| thoralf wrote: | | As for the rest of your rant - I kinda TL;DR, as I expect you to repeat more of the same in a month or so, |
| thoralf wrote: | | Most people can't even read properly - sometimes, they even miss titles. |
A little bit of a contradiction isn't it? The rest of my 'rant' was why I couldn't take the OPs post seriously regarding a lack of empathy.
| thoralf wrote: | | I learned to curb my enthusiasm over the years regarding silly online arguments. Most people can't even read properly - sometimes, they even miss titles. Thus I rather abide by tit for tat. |
Yeah? Well you seem to get involved in a fair few. More than me I feel. As soon as that UK/Euro blog abated you moved on, and chose this one. Before that there was another and so on and so on.
| thoralf wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | | What was the OPs real problem? |
The lack of empathy when your opponent is getting diced. |
Well I read his post, and I thought about it. The way he came over, I pigeon holed him. What I thought of him (i.e. a tantrum thrower) has now been backed up by another player; who has stated he pretty much has thrown fits when losing and refused to stand up and play (illegal by the way if it's not done tactically).
Now don't get me wrong. I do believe in making the experience pleasant for your opponent. I do believe that. In fact I'll state please find anybody on the site who's had an unpleasant experience whilst playing me. I don't think there is anybody who can say that.
However empathy is 2 way. I feel if you are losing it's equally bad to try and ruin the experience for the winner because basically you can't handle winning. To demand that the winner shows empathy because you're a sore loser is extremely childish.
As for the site itself, I think as an internet gaming platform the respect level here is very good. Yes there are some bad eggs, and it would be better if they are removed. However as it's a free to play game (I'm not even going to touch free/complain bit btw) and not driven by profits means the rules on behaviour are strict. If you misbehave, expect to be dealt with, and so you should.
Online gaming is never going to be the experience of playing TT. Surely you have to accept that. The basic manners of meeting somebody face to face are removed. Also a lot of the repercussions of not behaving well. Honestly though, if 'being silent' (I know a lot of coaches hate it, but I really can't see the problem with it) is a lack of empathy, I think internet gaming is not for you.
Lastly, on FUMBBL you can play so many games (more than anywhere else) that the feel of gaming here is different. Is it good that it's like that..no, not really, but it can't be helped. For most (especially in a division like box) game day excitement is removed. It's one game to the next. Dice for them are kind of irrelevant as they're looking at the big picture (that they'll even out eventually). This is something that the OP and it appears you cannot see. It's a game, bad dice happen, move on to the next, eventually they'll even out. It's a rather logic driven experience here, which if anything is devoid of emotion; positive or bad.
TL/DR? Most of the community are well behaved. The OP shouldn't demand empathy, rather earn it. Also demanding empathy from the winner, is failing to show empathy for the winner. If you feel you need empathy from the other to play here? Come on, that's too soft for me to comprehend, it is after all a game. |
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backelie
Joined: Jul 20, 2010
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Jun 25, 2016 - 23:48 |
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I thought whining about your own dice was mandatory, as is gloating if your luck then turns around. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Jun 26, 2016 - 00:35 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | A little bit of a contradiction isn't it? The rest of my 'rant' was why I couldn't take the OPs post seriously regarding a lack of empathy. |
Skimming where you make matters personal is not incompatible with reading properly. This is not the first time I've read that "pigeon holing" from our forum conscience. I've read this kind of things a zillion time. Ad hominem is boring when taken too seriously. It's so easy to use it can help a BS artist try to win a national election. It's unworthy of the grandiose task you set upon yourself of circling the wagons for the sake of this community.
This is not about you. This is not about me. This is not even about the person who comes here and provide feedback about the experience that make that person turn heel on the place.
| harvestmouse wrote: | | However empathy is 2 way. |
It's quite possible to have empathy toward a sociopath. You might be referring to reciprocation, which is two-way. You certainly don't clarify why reciprocation matters with your caricature according to which "to demand that the winner shows empathy because you're a sore loser is extremely childish." You're mostly conflating a demand with a prescription while begging the question at hand with yet more ad hominem.
As for the rest of your minimizations (a few bad apples, it's a free site, it's only a game), I hope you don't mind me skimming over them. |
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