ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Jul 23, 2016 - 01:35 |
 
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I wouldn't read too much into that... after all, I did lose that game yesterday.
I'm also not speaking from that much experience. I had a bear for five games, it didn't do much, and then it got killed. I intend to try them again some time, but somewhat miraculously, I haven't suffered a death, perm or even a MNG lately. I have 12 players, and it doesn't seem like a good idea to fire an uninjured skilled cat in favor of a rookie. (The cats skill up pretty easily, as these things go, but still.) I'm also accumulating a pretty serious bankroll, which seems important for the long-term health of a potentially fragile team. I've considered carrying 13 players, but even then I'd probably go for the fourth wolf before delving into bears.
BH for the bears would go a long way toward getting me to reconsider them. Right now, one of my main issues with the bears is that putting them on the line doesn't just mean putting them on the line. They need to be accompanied by helpers -- probably two at least. Which means only seven players can be off the line (or fewer if you have injuries/KOs,) and given that the strategy I've been employing involves using the team's superior mobility to swarm around the pitch, that's too many players to tie up for too little benefit.
Actually, wild animal might be even better for the bears -- if their main purpose is tying up, as stated, why not a negatrait that doesn't negate their tackle zone? Given that they have grab, they're not going to push opposing players off, and from a flavor standpoint, the idea of the bear batting and mauling his prey makes a lot of sense. AG-based teams are going to be able to dodge out, but those are the teams that the wolves and cats match up pretty well against.
(Also -- regeneration instead of thick skull? Offsets the armor somewhat, and mirrors the wolves.) |
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Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jul 23, 2016 - 02:35 |
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Would say that's a good assessment of the Bears - RS is just completely jarring on a team that really, really needs to make the best use of its mobility to screen, having to go back and not only give up position, but expose a cat or wolf just so the bear can (attempt to) stand up can actually lose you a drive if he rolls 1. At which point you really do wonder why you even took him.
Regen would make him too expensive imo, on a roster that already suffers a bit from the cost of wolves. |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Jul 23, 2016 - 05:17 |
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Is regen that much more expensive than thick skull? Because I figured it to be a 10k difference, RS/wild animal to be an either-or thing, and 110k to be a little high for the player as currently constituted. So you could still justify an 110k price on the bear. Maybe 120k if he also loses loner. |
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Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jul 23, 2016 - 05:31 |
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RS to WA would be a 20k increase for starters. Regen is I think 20k on a big guy, over the 10k for thick skull (and tbh, with av8, he still really needs thick skull).
You're talking 140k for just switching those two (150k if he keeps thick skull). Taking away loner is probably worth more than 10k...
[edit] this isn't meant as a criticism of the team, since, actually i find the lack of reliability very fluffy - I just think in the case of the werebear, his need to be babysat and general actual fragility makes his role as the "tarpit big guy" a bit questionable. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 23, 2016 - 08:00 |
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| ahalfling wrote: | | Is regen that much more expensive than thick skull? Because I figured it to be a 10k difference, RS/wild animal to be an either-or thing, and 110k to be a little high for the player as currently constituted. So you could still justify an 110k price on the bear. Maybe 120k if he also loses loner. |
Regeneration is 30 and thick skull is 10 |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jul 23, 2016 - 08:10 |
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do any of the big guys start with tackle? that would make one of them unique...maybe something to help the Foo or construct deviate from treemen |
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Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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cowhead
Joined: Oct 22, 2006
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Jul 23, 2016 - 11:10 |
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Okay, I was never really 100% happy with the 1st bear and the one I did yesterday was done in reaction to Garions comment in about 10 mins. I had a little bit more time this morning and I took on board what a few of you said and I've come up with this.
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Last edited by cowhead on %b %23, %2016 - %11:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 23, 2016 - 11:25 |
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that's pretty cool.  |
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jdm
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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Jul 23, 2016 - 12:04 |
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That rocks ch! Nice job. |
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Calthor
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
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Jul 23, 2016 - 12:06 |
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buuface
Joined: Apr 23, 2014
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Jul 23, 2016 - 14:06 |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Jul 23, 2016 - 15:02 |
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| Garion wrote: | | that's pretty cool. |
yeah, let's use that one |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Jul 24, 2016 - 03:58 |
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Oh, great, now I need to buy bears again.
(I guess I was going to use them on my Kislev team anyway... they want to stay on the line anyway. Some of them, at least.) |
_________________
Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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jdm
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
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Jul 24, 2016 - 12:00 |
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I'd like to talk about Gnoblars (roster). From a position of loving the stunty (and the secret league) but feeling they are very underwhelming as a team and a roster.
I've run them for 2 games (2 of the 3 total games played, so they're clearly unloved) and I cannot see what they bring to the table that isn't already covered by (mainly) the Clan Moulder roster but also a lot of the other stunty rosters such as Skink, Nautican etc.
For those that haven't experience with gnoblars (I played against ogre kingdoms in wfb but wasn't really sure how they differed from goblins), they are described as "smaller, weaker and more stupid than goblins. Pets and slaves to ogres. A foot shorter than goblins (so they're tiny!) with big ears and nose. Like Dobby.
The gnoblar roster has gnoblars having the same stat line (6-2-3-6), skill access (A/GSP) and cost (30k) as a halfling. They are also 0-16.
There is a trapper gnoblar who is the same as a normal gnoblar except they have prehensile tail and cost 10k more. 0-4 on the roster.
Then there are 3 big guys (all 0-1), who all have analogues in other rosters but have been "secret leagued" to remove the loner
Ogre is a normal ogre. Yheti is a norse snow troll. Gorger is a rat ogre/minotaur with av9.
There is nothing wrong with any of this but it screams to me of mediocrity and lack of coherent theme. I spoke to Garion about it and he said it was the roster he was least interested in and that he had basically just copied the Leeg Gnoblar roster with a slight tinker around the edges.
It isn't that the gnoblars are a bad team (well, they are, but I managed 2 draws that went from wins for me into draws in the last play of each game. So clearly they can at least compete a bit). I think it's that the roster has had no love and attention paid to it and this is shown by the lack of games played.
As stated above, Gnoblars are very similar to Clan Moulder, but Moulder have 0-6 big guys who are very similar to Gorger/Yheti for the same cost. Moulder Slaves are 10k more than Gnoblars but have ma7 compared to 5. And the entire team has M access on normal rolls so can get the prehensile tail that the trappers have (if desired).
So, what to do about it?
Given the choice, I'd like to see a (radical) redesign of Gnoblars to set them apart from all of the stunty teams. Maybe making 0-16 Gnoblars a bit like the Leeg Skyre Slaves with a boost on cost and/or drop in strength. 6-1-3-6 with dodge, guard, right stuff and stunty for 50k? To symbolise their cowardly nature on their own but the strength they draw from numbers.
I know G has spoken about not wanting to make any changes to the rosters for the time being, but I feel unless something is done about the gnoblars they are going to be left behind, unloved and unplayed. And I don't think anyone wants that. |
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buuface
Joined: Apr 23, 2014
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Jul 24, 2016 - 12:31 |
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