| Poll |
| What skill does Mr. Magoo take? |
| Juggernaut |
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44% |
[ 13 ] |
| Mighty Blow |
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20% |
[ 6 ] |
| Guard |
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6% |
[ 2 ] |
| Tackle |
|
3% |
[ 1 ] |
| Something else .. |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| A juicy slice of pie :9 |
|
24% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 29 |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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  Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 05:17 |
 
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So, my HE catcher, Mr. Magoo, on this HE team just rolled a double for his fourth skill and I'm a bit torn on what to pick. He has Frenzy and I've heard that Frenzy/Juggs is really good, so I'm tempted to go for Juggernaut. Although, I have to admit I'm not 100% sure why it's considered to be so good (or maybe it's not, and I'm just wrong, lol). Is it more for the surf potential vs Stand Firm, or because you can treat both down as a push, therefore more chances to roll pows with the Frenzy (I guess both?)? Before the double, I was planning to go Tackle, Leap and lean him towards being a cage-breaking bitzer.
The other obvious doubles options are MB and Guard. I've only got one Guard on the team right now (which feels insufficient), although it doesn't seem to fit his skillset so well with the Frenzy, Wrestle, AV7. MB would obviously be nice too, although I also just rolled a double on my second blitzer (yeah, Nuffle's been kind today) and I'm thinking of taking it on him, which would give me 2 MB already. Although, I could take Guard on the blitzer and MB on the Frenzy catcher?
Well, I guess it's a nice problem to have  . Another option is to ignore the double and carry on with his previous development plan with Tackle.
Any thoughts would be appreciated! |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 05:23 |
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Frenzy + Juggernaut = Surfed Stand Firm players
Juggs also ignore Wrestle on an opponent.
Trust me, take Juggs here, then Strip Ball next. You'll put the ball on the ground 5/6 dice rolls on a 1d block, or 35 of 36 2d blocks.
After Strip, take Tackle, and you'll have a player that can take down nearly EVERY ball carrier out there, surf anything near a sideline, and otherwise annoy the crap out of every other coach that faces him until he goes sploosh.
Also, take guard on your other blitzer, followed by dodge, side-step, fend. Finish him with Diving Tackle if nothing else better can be taken. Blodgestep is always annoying, having it push your assist where you want it is worse, and not being able to follow up is truly sick. Add to that the Tackle and eventual Diving Tackle, and he's going to be an insanely annoying marker to stick to the ball handler. Similar players have single-handedly won me games |
Last edited by Antithesisoftime on %b %24, %2016 - %05:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 05:31 |
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Hi AoT, thanks for the comments on the Frenzy/Juggs. Not so sure about Strip Ball next though. I have Strip on another catcher already, but I hardly ever use it. At the TV range these guys tend to operate at (1800+), almost every team has a solid Sure Hands ballcarrier .. |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 05:35 |
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I use it enough at 2200 TV with my dwarves.
And yes, teams tend to have a sure handed ball carrier, but how many players on a team has sure hands besides that carrier? I can't think of many teams I run that have more than 2, with most of them only having one.
Edit: Speaking of sure hands, I note your team lacks the skill.  |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 05:56 |
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He is built a little strangely with wrestle and then frenzy, and you took strip on another guy, but that's ok.
I wouldn't take MB on him, I might take guard on him, but really frenzy/juggs is a lot of fun, so just try it out. Juggs does combo with strip such that if they don't have sure hands you can use a both down to trigger strip ball. Of course depending on the situation you may prefer to wrestle them down, but you'll have the choice at least. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 09:11 |
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I'm not crazy about Juggs when there are better things to take, which is almost all of the time (also, Frenzy and Strip don't go together at all. You want control of a Strip Ball player, use a RR rather than losing him to a second block. A good coach will Frenzy trap him and nullify his usefulness). I think it's the fashionable pick and opponents will worry about it, but you'll see more actual value from Mighty Blow or Guard. Since he has Frenzy, I'd take MB, even though Wrestle makes it a bit weird. |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 09:36 |
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juggernaut is an average skill at best to take on this player. |
_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 12:19 |
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Thanks for all the responses! About the strange skill choices, basically, this catcher is intended to be the go-to guy for bringing down annoying ballcarriers that have Sure Hands (and there seem to be a lot of them!), among other things (ST4, blodge ..). So, for bringing down someone like that, I figured that he obviously has to have Wrestle and Tackle. Frenzy gives more chances to roll a double pow/both down, if he can only get a -2db. Also on the agenda are Leap for cagebreaking and maybe Dauntless, for the ST4 carriers.
So, given I've been building him for such a specific role, maybe I'd be better off ignoring the double and taking Tackle? |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 12:24 |
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| Antithesisoftime wrote: | | Edit: Speaking of sure hands, I note your team lacks the skill. |
They haven't got it, that's true, and it is on my agenda to make a Blodge, Sure Hands, probably with that second Thrower I took (if he ever gets any spp ..). Anyway, I have a ST4 blodge ballcarrier, who usually does alright without SH |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 13:43 |
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Guard, Strip ball, Sure hands do not work well together, so dont plan to take those. I think juggernaut would be very efficient. Take it, and make this player your surfing threat.
You should then probably give him Dauntless, Pro in that particular oder if he does not roll double or stat. Tackle has little use on a surfer, dont take it. If you need to sack on the open field, then he is good enough already. The surfer will most probably attack str4 guys, having Dauntless working is huge for that purpose. Even unassisted, and need to make 2 pushes, he is a favourite to surf a str4 guy with a team reroll. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 15:01 |
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| Purplegoo wrote: | | I'm not crazy about Juggs when there are better things to take, which is almost all of the time (also, Frenzy and Strip don't go together at all. You want control of a Strip Ball player, use a RR rather than losing him to a second block. A good coach will Frenzy trap him and nullify his usefulness). I think it's the fashionable pick and opponents will worry about it, but you'll see more actual value from Mighty Blow or Guard. Since he has Frenzy, I'd take MB, even though Wrestle makes it a bit weird. |
This is true, frenzy and strip are not ideal. Juggs and strip add additional options, but since he has wrestle they may not be particularly valuable. However I disagree with the notion that a good coach will just frenzy trap him. Of course a good coach will try to do this, but the beauty of the game is that when two good coaches play one of them usually has to make a positional concession at some point. You having this player then forces your opponent to set up so as to frenzy trap him. Or, you will find the right situation where the trap isn't set due to other issues with the position. Frenzy traps are much easier to set up on low AG lower MA players anyway, this guy is going to be blitzing, you have more control over how he deploys than if you were talking about a mino or ulf.
It's really the oddity of having taken wrestle which makes him odd. There's good reason to have a frenzy player for elfs, but they need leap and side step (usually) to give them maximum potential. You already have another sacker on this team as well, and while redundancy isn't terrible, I find it a bit overrated outside of league/tournaments I guess, but even there you are paying a hefty price in TV for players who are usually only useful if you lose the other one for the game. Meaning you already lost that TV.
Anyway, since you have an MB blitzer, and since you do have some guard (though really, can never have enough guard for elfs), I would just try to build this guy as a dedicated surfer. Wrestle isn't terrible there, and juggs helps mitigate it when you don't want to use it (blitz only remember).
After that take leap and dauntless, assuming he gets that far.
Else, take guard and while wrestle/frenzy/guard is a really odd combo, you can still just use him for support, and the odd surf. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 16:18 |
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I was referring to the suggested Frenzy, Juggs, Strip direction. The 'concession' to trap that guy while trying to do the job you invested TV to do would be incredibly minor. In the unusual case where you don't have a SH player at this TV, you would be begging a Stripping, Frenzy Elf to come in and have a go. The instances when this guy ruined a defensive position would by far outweigh those of the amazing ball pop / turnover. You'll only ever be having at best one / half into half dice. Yummy.
I think stuff like a Juggs pick here is entirely for the dreamer or the coach sketching a roster on the back of an envelope, not for practical winning. Get one of the two good doubles and get consistent value. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 19:09 |
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Hmm .. this is a really tough decision. The Juggs surfing option is interesting, but I'm not entirely convinced by it (although I am tempted to try it, but it could be a costly 'experiment'). I think Guard is out for me, as it doesn't fit well with the rest of his skills. Mighty Blow is surely good, but it also doesn't seem to jive so well with Wrestle either, and the MB, Tackle guy is probably still going to do most of the damage blitzing.
I have to say I am tempted to just stick with the program, ignore the double and take Tackle. He was always intended to be a very specific utility player, and for that he needs Tackle, followed by Leap/Dauntless.
@Licker: regarding the redundancy of having two ball-sackers, I think two makes sense for several reasons: firstly, they're both AV7, so if I only have one then it's not uncommon for him to be in the injury box or mng. Also, given I can have 4 catchers, and how crucial getting the ball out of that cage is for HEs, it seems to make sense to have a couple of very specific builds for different situations - the Strip guy if the ballcarrier doesn't have Sure Hands, the Frenzy guy if they do.
I don't know, these are just my thoughts on it anyway .. |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 19:27 |
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thats quite an odd player you have, frenzy and wrestle is strange.
Mighty Blow is the obvious choice. Tackle is fine as well.
Deffo don't take jugs, he doesnt have block which makes Jugs even worse than normal. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 19:35 |
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Piling on, then jump up, then tackle. Obviously.
POJU All Menz |
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