| Poll |
| What skill does Mr. Magoo take? |
| Juggernaut |
|
44% |
[ 13 ] |
| Mighty Blow |
|
20% |
[ 6 ] |
| Guard |
|
6% |
[ 2 ] |
| Tackle |
|
3% |
[ 1 ] |
| Something else .. |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| A juicy slice of pie :9 |
|
24% |
[ 7 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 29 |
|
JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
|
 Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 19:40 |
 
|
I took a Wrestle/Frenzy player once, it was okay. Not great, but good for putting people on the ground. He's a good player 'cause he also has POMB, but I'd have taken Block had I the chance to do it over.
Re: Frenzy/Strip, it's better than you think. I've only seen it on ST4 (on tabletop, a +ST Wardancer with Frenzy and Strip), but it lets you pop the ball on the first block and get the (former) carrier off the ball with the second block. I don't like Strip Ball, and I don't like it on Frenzy, esp not at ST3, but the combo does have its merits.
I voted MB, but I wouldn't have built the player the way he is. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
|
DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 19:43 |
|
| Garion wrote: |
Deffo don't take jugs, he doesnt have block which makes Jugs even worse than normal. |
I'm not sure I understand this statement. I hate jugs, but jugs doesn't need block at all. They are either/or skills. In fact, if you had block, I would argue you want jugs even LESS. |
|
|
bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 19:56 |
|
If the guy wants to surf, or sweep, then wrestle is not an issue at all with frenzy and jug. I would argue that you dont even ever feel the difference. If you wanted to do damage and kill a wrodger, then the blitzer with tackle and might blow will do it.
A surfer is very important for quick elves, as either the opponent respects it, or gives room to maneuver at the sideline. Same limitation if you have a leap-stripper. Double caging at the center? Good luck with that. |
_________________
 |
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 20:05 |
|
| DarthPhysicist wrote: | | Garion wrote: |
Deffo don't take jugs, he doesnt have block which makes Jugs even worse than normal. |
I'm not sure I understand this statement. I hate jugs, but jugs doesn't need block at all. They are either/or skills. In fact, if you had block, I would argue you want jugs even LESS. |
I don't think you understand what jugs does fully.
If you have jugs but do not use it to change both down to push then you can use juggernaut against an opposing player who has wrestle, it means they cannot use wrestle on defence, so block can be used to knock them over.
This is why block is needed when using juggs |
_________________
 |
|
Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 20:10 |
|
| JackassRampant wrote: | | I knew a man that skilled a ST 4 Wardancer sub optimally, but it was still a ST 4 Wardancer, so it was pretty OK. Local leagues, huh? Crazy times. |
Tackle is a better choice than Juggs. Be wary about 'having a plan'. That's silly forum stuff; you're always best helping your team right now with whatever skill ups you get. Having a plan for a dude 2-3 skills down the line is rarely the most sensible thing to do, all of those games later the team may be very different. |
|
|
DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 20:35 |
|
| Garion wrote: | | DarthPhysicist wrote: | | Garion wrote: |
Deffo don't take jugs, he doesnt have block which makes Jugs even worse than normal. |
I'm not sure I understand this statement. I hate jugs, but jugs doesn't need block at all. They are either/or skills. In fact, if you had block, I would argue you want jugs even LESS. |
I don't think you understand what jugs does fully.
If you have jugs but do not use it to change both down to push then you can use juggernaut against an opposing player who has wrestle, it means they cannot use wrestle on defence, so block can be used to knock them over.
This is why block is needed when using juggs |
No I understand what it does. It just requires the user to not block thinking that jugs covers a block. |
|
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 20:43 |
|
sorry I'm not sure i understand your sentence?
To be clear - juggernaut negates wrestle. So if both down is rolled and the blitzing player has both juggernaut and block then both down can be taken instead of turning it in to a push. If this is done wrestle can't be used be the defensive player, and is therefore knocked down.
So it is not an either or skill as you suggest, juggernaut is most useful when blitzing players with wrestle as it means they have no defence against your blitz |
_________________
|
|
JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 20:57 |
|
| Purplegoo wrote: | | JackassRampant wrote: | | I knew a man that skilled a ST 4 Wardancer sub optimally, but it was still a ST 4 Wardancer, so it was pretty OK. Local leagues, huh? Crazy times. |
|
Yeah. He got ST4 after Strip Ball, then took Frenzy after that, and we learned that the synergy between SB and Frenzy is not ALL negative. Just mostly. That's all. Not saying it's a good combo or you should do it. (In fact, I don't like either skill very much.) |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
|
JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 21:14 |
|
I think it's got to be between Juggs and Tackle. As bghandras says, I've already got a Tackle/MB blitzer (and could make another one), so they're going to be my go-to guys for damage blitzing. I guess I need to decide whether I want to turn him into the ultimate surf-machine, or stick with the ball-sacker plan.
I have to admit, the possibility of surfing SF dwarves, mummies and bull centaurs, even on a -2db, is quite appealing. Also, if I manage to roll +MA on another catcher, he could be useful to allow 1-turning vs Stand Firm. |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!"  |
|
JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 21:16 |
|
| Garion wrote: | I don't think you understand what jugs does fully.
If you have jugs but do not use it to change both down to push then you can use juggernaut against an opposing player who has wrestle, it means they cannot use wrestle on defence, so block can be used to knock them over.
This is why block is needed when using juggs |
I hadn't even considered that situation, to be perfectly honest, but thanks for pointing it out! Yeah, I agree that Block is better with Juggs than Wrestle. |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
|
DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 22:32 |
|
| Garion wrote: |
So it is not an either or skill as you suggest, juggernaut is most useful when blitzing players with wrestle as it means they have no defence against your blitz |
It is completely an either/or. You cannot use Block AND Juggernaut in the same action. Can't do it. Nope nope nope. You either take the push, or use Block and stay standing (or go down on opponents wrestle). Can't use it both ways in the same turn. That's what I mean by either/or. Only one is active on a given action (although you do get to chose which one, provided you blitzed). As to it negating opponents wrestle, sure it does that. Just seems like a bloaty thing to add to an already bloaty player is all. |
|
|
JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 22:38 |
|
| DarthPhysicist wrote: | | Garion wrote: |
So it is not an either or skill as you suggest, juggernaut is most useful when blitzing players with wrestle as it means they have no defence against your blitz |
It is completely an either/or. You cannot use Block AND Juggernaut in the same action. Can't do it. Nope nope nope. |
False. You can decline to use Juggernaut to turn a both down into a push, use Block to not go down, and Juggernaut to negate the opponent's Wrestle. The opponent then goes down and takes an Armor roll just like he didn't have Wrestle. Maybe the client has it wrong, but that's the way it seems to work on FUMBBL. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor.
Last edited by JackassRampant on %b %24, %2016 - %22:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
|
Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 22:40 |
|
| DarthPhysicist wrote: | | Garion wrote: |
So it is not an either or skill as you suggest, juggernaut is most useful when blitzing players with wrestle as it means they have no defence against your blitz |
It is completely an either/or. You cannot use Block AND Juggernaut in the same action. Can't do it. Nope nope nope. |
Yes you can. Let me run you through this _
You blitz and roll both down, you have to choose whether to use juggernaut to turn both down into push, you say no, then you get to choose whether you want to use juggernaut to cancel opponents Wrestle, you say yes, the both down knocks opponent over but you stay standing because of the block skill.
This is why it's always best to have block on a player with juggernaut. If you have wrestle then you do not get this option.
And jackass the client does not have it wrong |
|
|
licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 22:48 |
|
Juggs makes surfing more reliable by allowing you to turn both down into push. Tackle makes surfing less reliable by turning defender stumbles vs. dodge into a defender down. Though clearly the dodge player can choose to use dodge or not.
Juggs thus also combos with stripball by turning both down in to a push and triggering strip. Though the scenarios where that applies are 1/9 for a 2d block, so meh.
Having wrestle already makes the juggs combo with strip pretty useless though, so don't bother with that line of thinking for this player.
So, then we're at the point where we ask why did you take Frenzy in the first place on this player? Why take frenzy ever on any player if not to force the opponent to fear the surf? Ok, you can double your block dice (not exactly, but you know what I mean) with it, you can do more one turn tricks with it, you can affect the position more generally with it, or be forced out of position with it.
Realistically you are using frenzy to surf or to threaten it. Juggs helps with this, making your chances of a push on a 2d 75% which is important for the first block, it then make your chances on the 2nd block 35/36. Does that assist make it worth taking over MB or Guard? (Tackle? seriously..)
That depends on the coach and the rest of the team. This player is not a good candidate for MB frankly, and while Guard/wrestle doesn't matter as much as some people think it does, guard/frenzy is an awkward combo at times.
Still, I'd take guard if you really don't like surfing. If you do like surfing then go juggs. If you never get to surf don't bother though, but meh, this is an R team, you get plenty of surfing opportunities and you don't have to power game them completely. |
|
|
DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
|
| Posted:
Jul 24, 2016 - 22:51 |
|
| Garion wrote: |
You blitz and roll both down, you have to choose whether to use juggernaut to turn both down into push, you say no, then you get to choose whether you want to use juggernaut to cancel opponents Wrestle, you say yes, the both down knocks opponent over but you stay standing because of the block skill.
This is why it's always best to have block on a player with juggernaut. If you have wrestle then you do not get this option.
And jackass the client does not have it wrong |
I stand corrected. The skill actually does say you get to choose the push.
So 30k to cancel wrestle... still not sure its worth it. |
|
|
|
|
| |
Chaos Draft League R...
Search
