dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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 Posted:
Mar 25, 2017 - 20:47 |
 
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mrt1212 - I see no reason why how many games your team has played (which will determine which season you are in) would matter any more than it does now. Variable seasons of the sort I described will, I think, simply change the mean TVs around which the teams are playing tending to bunch newer teams together and older teams together (pool size dependent, ofc). Nor do I see a reason to show you what season your opponent's team is in. In R you play who you want or not regardless using the same mechanisms as now, and in B you play who you get regardless (TV notwithstanding) using the same mechanisms as now. The current new team protections could apply.
licker - the intent of the rules is the relevant part, as I said before. The example in the rulebook is based on TT leagues, but the intent (to have teams soft reset in order to cut down the high fliers and help those which are unlucky, reducing TV distribution to the 1500-2000TV range) is extant even though the details are variable. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Mar 25, 2017 - 21:04 |
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Variable seasons as you describe seems like a superfluous and non meaningful sorting mechanism then - if the outcome is that teams in certain seasons congregate around certain TVs but in R coaches can still choose teams outside their seasons AND season TV distribution what does the congregation of TVs even matter? In B Bowlbot would still has leeway to pair teams outside of seasons if the TV disparity isn't too great, what does this congregation matter?
The congregation might even be completely insignificant like season 1 teams being 1000-1200, season 2 1100-1400, season 3 1100-1600 season 4, 1200-1600. And not only because of how TV works but because of coaches actively trying to work a minmax racket.
And that's actually something that has to be paid credence - coaches will build their teams to work in a TV range where they can actually get games and in some cases, have a distinct advantage from team age in those games.
Variable seasons as you illustrate them are means to an end that is openly contravened by the matchmaking mechanisms. The contouring of TV distribution of teams participating just doesn't do much. Or at the very least wouldn't do much that seasons at a standard length combined with match making mechanism already wouldn't spit out. |
Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %25, %2017 - %21:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Mar 25, 2017 - 21:23 |
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| koadah wrote: | they were thinking that a season could be 6-14 games?
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No, "they" were not. That's only Dode's misinterpretation of "eight or more" and his extrapolation based on a freaking example. |
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Cyrus-Havoc
Joined: Sep 15, 2006
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Mar 25, 2017 - 21:36 |
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If we have seasons, & l don't think we should, then I believe Christer uses 30 games as the upper limit for match making purposes. There must be a lot of data that gives this result so it would seem to be the best starting point. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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| Posted:
Mar 25, 2017 - 21:56 |
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| Cyrus-Havoc wrote: | | If we have seasons, & l don't think we should, then I believe Christer uses 30 games as the upper limit for match making purposes. There must be a lot of data that gives this result so it would seem to be the best starting point. |
+1. 30-game seasons would be fine by me.
With no PO, Ranked Amateurs average about 2.6 Cas and 1.4 TD per game. That's 20k per match, times 30 matches is 600k. Plus 1300k is 1900k, plus treasury, we'd never have to fire anyone. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Mar 25, 2017 - 22:04 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | By the same token, if Christer need volunteers for a test division with seasons I will happily participate with a new team so we know what what we're getting ourselves into before potentially migrating. |
I would also be willing to make a new team and playtest in a new division that implements seasons. I think it would be an interesting experiment. One way to incentivise people might be to set up a series of official SMACK tourneys (maybe even a major) that would only be accessible to teams in that division.
It's hard to deny the effect it would have on further fragmenting the player base though. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Mar 25, 2017 - 22:07 |
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| JellyBelly wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: | | By the same token, if Christer need volunteers for a test division with seasons I will happily participate with a new team so we know what what we're getting ourselves into before potentially migrating. |
I would also be willing to make a new team and playtest in a new division that implements seasons. I think it would be an interesting experiment. One way to incentivise people might be to set up a series of official SMACK tourneys (maybe even a major) that would only be accessible to teams in that division.
It's hard to deny the effect it would have on further fragmenting the player base though. |
I hear a potion makes a nice bribe. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Mar 25, 2017 - 22:35 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | I hear a potion makes a nice bribe. |
Works on me! (just let me know which team you want taken out ...  ) |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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dode74
Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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Mar 25, 2017 - 23:12 |
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mrt1212 - I think you misunderstand what I am suggesting for variable seasons. The median team life is currently about 5 games in B, I believe (or it was last time I looked), and I suspect that shorter initial seasons may lead to people not giving up on their teams so fast because they can come back from early setbacks more easily. It was just a thought.
thoralf - as I have said, I believe your interpretation of what the example represents is flawed. I'm content to agree to disagree on that, though.
Either way, it will be interesting to see if and how it is implemented here. I shall leave you chaps to it  |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Mar 25, 2017 - 23:13 |
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| dode74 wrote: |
Carrying on the theme of selective quotation and finishing yours, "It is up to the Commissioner to decide how to run the league, and they are free to change or modify any of the Blood Bowl rules as they see fit."
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I'm actually glad you quote the BB Golden Rule, Dode - that the Komissar is Da Law is quite compatible with the fact that a double round robin described in DZ1 is only an example. OTOH it's harder to sell that the example described in DZ1 is more than an example when it is prefaced with a warning that the example is only an example, and contradicted by the very rule you quote. You can check back this thread and the Spot All the Rulz to see how seriously I take the BB Golden Rule.
Your implied tu quoque is thus invalid. Thanks for playing. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Mar 25, 2017 - 23:18 |
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I'd like to see a system like this.
Every 6 games, you may end your season.
Every 30 games, you must end your season. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Mar 25, 2017 - 23:20 |
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| dode74 wrote: | mrt1212 - I think you misunderstand what I am suggesting for variable seasons. The median team life is currently about 5 games in B, I believe (or it was last time I looked), and I suspect that shorter initial seasons may lead to people not giving up on their teams so fast because they can come back from early setbacks more easily. It was just a thought.
thoralf - as I have said, I believe your interpretation of what the example represents is flawed. I'm content to agree to disagree on that, though.
Either way, it will be interesting to see if and how it is implemented here. I shall leave you chaps to it |
Oh, I see. Maybe it'll be a carrot to increase median games per team but that's contingent on whether its worth taking a team deep into seasons anyway. |
Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %25, %2017 - %23:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Mar 25, 2017 - 23:21 |
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| dode74 wrote: |
licker - the intent of the rules is the relevant part, as I said before. The example in the rulebook is based on TT leagues, but the intent (to have teams soft reset in order to cut down the high fliers and help those which are unlucky, reducing TV distribution to the 1500-2000TV range) is extant even though the details are variable. |
Here is what I do not "get". If the intent is to keep teams who are high flying and cut them down to the 1500-2000 TV range. That implies to me that the Mean or Average TV of R/B is over 2000. Which it is clearly not.
If the intent is to cut back the 10% of teams in R/B who play at 2000+TV and force them back to the Mean or Average of TV in the 1500-2000 Range, well, why? The pool of teams is so large in R/B having 300 teams sitting at 2200+TV is a non issue because you have 2900 teams sitting in the 1300-1800 TV range playing each other and another 1100 teams in the 1900-2100 TV range playing each other.
Cutting teams down to size in a 8 man league, I understand, I understand that desire in a 16 team or 32 it starts to waver in a 64 or 128 team league.
BUT
As the size of the league grows in terms of teams, there becomes a point where cutting down the high flyers is no longer necessary or actually good for the league. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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Mar 25, 2017 - 23:48 |
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| PainState wrote: | | Here is what I do not "get". If the intent is to keep teams who are high flying and cut them down to the 1500-2000 TV range. That implies to me that the Mean or Average TV of R/B is over 2000. Which it is clearly not. |
Well, that was before PO and SE were removed.
We've yet to see what the effect of those changes will be on mean/median TV, but it's hard to see it going anywhere but up.
Edit: Note that I'm not saying it's necessarily a problem, just pointing it out |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
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vaclav
Joined: Mar 21, 2009
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Mar 26, 2017 - 10:43 |
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You are erasing all the fun with high tv building and making legend players with this seasons. If you play tourneys it needs more commitment to build a team. I just like my teams sitting and waitnig for tourney, and not nervously waiting on GF to cherry pick. After so many games played here i came to the point where i found the highest tv matches are the most fun ones.. to play and to watch. For u that like minmaxing and teams for no more than 20 games, i can suggest minmax league with seasons. |
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