yarrick1imperial
Joined: Apr 28, 2017
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 Posted:
Apr 28, 2017 - 08:22 |
 
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Hi Guys
I am writing this as i wanna help the Ogre coaches around the world in how to skill up Ogres.
Cause most people right them off and to be honest there is more to them than meets the eye...
A lot of people will not agree with me, however i have been playing them a lot, and i have tried every build possible and to me i have had more success with this build than any other.
Also this is more for the longhal of player development, so if you play occ or a continuing league after league after league, then this will help fellow Ogre Coaches, as its the only way they can become competitive... and its fun to win matches as you leave frustrated coaches in your wake as you win games...
First off the build.
For a long time i did the 5 Ogres 2 re-roll Ogre build. However my most successful team came after i did the 4 ogres 3rr apoth and a whole lot of snots. The reason i chose this build is to create money in the team, so you can get 600k in the team treasury.
You will need this in case of death of Ogres and also Team re-rolls and of course replacing snots...
TV is very important for ogres, as no team bloats more than Ogres.
Its a shame as the other teams have a huge advantage when it comes to that. Ogres roll more dice than any other team cause of BH, and normally those rolls determine if we win or lose...
So this is the build i suggest.
You can do it with any Ogre team build, however i found this team the most easiest to move forward with...
This took years to master and a lot of blood bowl games, and also you are gonna lose a lot of games before you see results...
When skilling up Ogres i always took BT as the first none double skill, i rarely took Piling on as the games about the positioning of the ball, and if your ogres are gonna be stuck hitting people all day, then that limits you moving the ball around.
The other reason i take BT is because if you get a skill increase in +AG +ST or +MV, its a handy skill to have and keeps your Ogres mobile.
So many times i put guard first and then i roll an +AG increase, to me it was annoying as BT would be more useful to get away when needing to dodge.
So please Take BT on every ogre that you can, it comes in handy and forces your opponent to think about his cage...
The next none double i take is Guard. This compliments with the ST the ogres already have and helps them, cause we do not get block off the bat. The 3rd skill i take is Stand firm, and at least one Ogre with Strong arm, just makes that throw team mate a lot safer and hoping to use that re-roll on the landing if possible.
Those are the main 3 skills i take, after the 4th one it gets a little tricky as there is not a lot more in the strength category to help moving ogres. Piling on in this instance is a possibility, however i find that if you take it and again roll an agility increase, its a wasted skill, as that ag3 is now ya ball carrier.
The more agility you can get on ogres the better the team will function as they need it. I normally have 1 piling on Ogre, but as the Ogres develop into better blockers and runners, i end up cutting them later on in the games.
The stand firm helps with the cage, and keeping your ogres firmly in place, and cannot be crowd surfed easily, also if you have piling on and guard, i think its pointless, as you are on the ground and your guard is useless. Also you have enough problems with BH, and now you are creating more holes on offense and defense. So for me it hinders your team, and is counter productive.
One note, if your gonna take piling on then do it on every ogre, cause that way you can PO every damn turn, but this will not win you games, only cas which the ogres can do naturally and with out being on the ground.
Also it leaves you prone to fouling and that's bad, make them get you down so there are less people fouling u...
Grab is another option for a 4th or 5th skill it works quite good with guarding Ogres.
I also use Ogres as Ball Carriers. At first i use the snotlings, but as soon as i get a BT Ogre, hes my Ball carrier, It also helps skill him up faster.
Once i get to level 6, if no doubles are rolled then i cut them, and with the money i have saved buy a rookie ogre, as you need doubles on this team, and start again with the rookies.
I do what i can with the rookie ogres to help skill them up, the rest of the ogres that are skilled will help the Rookie Ogre do this...
If you roll a double first up i take BLOCK...
Block is awesome on ogres, i used to not take it for other skills, however it just keeps your Ogres upright, and ya 2D blocks safer. If you get another double on that block Ogre, then take tackle... i cannot stress this enough its the best combo for ogres reliability for getting blodges down. If you got BT on this Ogre already then he is a blitzer, and no blodges are safe or anyone with blodge for that matter. Now if you manage to get a BT ag3 Block Ogre i would take dodge on him, because he becomes a reliable ball carrier. Yes there are strip ballers out there but this is why.
Even if the strip baller gets to hit him and you are caged up nicely, its gonna be an up hill block. So i take it, not that the dodge protects you, but also good for dodging out to score, and BT makes that a 2+ dodge with a re-roll.
This ogre is hard to build i know, but i have one right now in OCC and hes a pain in the ass to everyone when he has the ball
Its fun to watch him tear up the field with people trying to stop him. I call this play the Jonah Lomu effect, cause if you ever look up this guy, he reminds me of what ogres can do with the ball in hand...
I also Create a Passing Ogre as well.
First Double is Pass so you can re-roll the throw team mate mostly, but also if he picks up the ball you can also throw it to a catch snotling for more offensive ability. If you get pass then strong arm follows by BT it helps with moving the thrower so you are not stranded, and can dodge out of the first tackle zone to throw ya snot or ball. If you get another double on this ogre after Pass, consider Nerves Of Steel or Pro as it helps with the BH and also blocking dice at times the NOS means you can throw in multiple tackle zones with out a negitive to passing so its gold and now you have created a better version of brik farth, but he plays for your team all the time... Strong arm can come later as its a normal skill but i have had very good success with the throwing ogre and then i try to create a pro snot for he landing roll... or an ag4 snot if you can get one... its amazing when you have rerolls on the throw and landing rolls that makes the throw Team Mate a real threat... you need these players most of all to win games as this is where you can make a difference
The strength 6 Ogre. Take him over block please, because if you have BT hes dodging into cages on a 3+.
That is your can opener, plus its easy to get 3D blocks with him and helps skill him up faster.
If you get another double take block on this guy, and if you ever get another one its up to you dodge for the re-roll into the cage, or tackle for the quality of the hit... but a st 6 blodger is an awesome piece to have, so take the ST6 ogre he helps on a lot of levels...
+AV i never take unless i am trying to make morg n thorg. 9 is enough, the +1MV i do take also as it helps get the ogres into position better, however if its a double 5 i take the block and move on from there...
With Ogres block is the most important skill, it keeps your rerolls on the BH for the important rolls, and make the blocks easier to manage. So take the doubles where you can...
The snots i tend to build 3 with catch and then sure feet and sprint, this goes in hand with the Throwing Ogre.
Leader is the first double skill i give them, keeps the TV down as rerolls are expensive, and maybe a dirty player in there, Hail Mary Pass is another, Kick Off Return is another and pro for the AG4 snot if he rolls a double or NOS if you are looking for the perfect defense counter attack snot... just Hope he has catch first...
+1 MV snot is also gold as it helps with making the 1 TTD a little easier, plus movement is always a plus...
if you do this +1 MV catch sure feet and sprint
The snots, i use for screening and fouling, to help the ogres out and dodge them away from trouble.
I then will use the Snots to score once i have the QB Ogre as its easier to score with no BH, it just works out better for the team as a whole
Also take the AG4 snot hes gold, get an ogre with strong arm, and if he gets a double i would take pass, these 2 combos work well. If you get an ag5 snot then keep him on offense, but again hes hard to get, i have never done this yet...
Well that's my thoughts on Ogres. I hope you find this novel helpful, and will help fellow future Ogre coaches
You can win games with this team it just takes time, alot of it and practice. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 28, 2017 - 08:30 |
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You should create a team and play here  |
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yarrick1imperial
Joined: Apr 28, 2017
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Apr 28, 2017 - 08:35 |
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i mostly play cyanide and OCC mostly never really got the hang of fumbbl |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 28, 2017 - 08:42 |
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Well create a team and find a game. You'll get the hang of how everything works pretty quickly. Once you do games are so much quicker using the fumbbl client.
It's just a better version all round really, the rules are also more up to date here, in line with the new blood bowl 2016 rules. |
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yarrick1imperial
Joined: Apr 28, 2017
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Apr 28, 2017 - 08:47 |
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How do the leagues work do they continue to keep ya Ogres skilling up like OCC OR MM |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Apr 28, 2017 - 08:56 |
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Yes, so there are 2 main divisions, R and B .
R - Ranked is a division in which teams progress as normal, you pick your opponent on game finder. this is probably the best place to start out.
B - black box - is essentially the same as match maker
There are also leagues you can join in with further down the line, once used to things here. In league they work more like a table top league a group of friends would play albeit online and bit bigger. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Apr 28, 2017 - 10:16 |
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We run (partial implementation) the new GW official rules here, so saving 600k etc is no longer an option. And you can't take piling on either, but I see you weren't big on it anyway |
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yarrick1imperial
Joined: Apr 28, 2017
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Apr 28, 2017 - 11:06 |
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nah not with Ogres its really pointless |
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ben_awesome
Joined: May 11, 2016
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Apr 28, 2017 - 12:26 |
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paradocks
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
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Apr 28, 2017 - 12:33 |
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You'll find some of the most successful ogre coaches on here are the types that take piling on for every first skill. Of course they're luckboxes but they do make it work somehow
Personally I agree with basically everything in your ogre strategy. Though I would never even consider retiring a healthy legend ogre, that seems like madness to me. A couple of Block+PO ogres is nice to have on an established team, also good to have a Juggernaut+Grab utility guy for the annoying Stand Firm and SS opponents. And I wouldn't try to develop a passing ogre myself since it's so hard to roll doubles I need them for Block, but I don't really oppose the idea. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Apr 28, 2017 - 14:23 |
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I like to take Guard first, becase Guard spam makes blocks more reliable (it's easier to generate 3d blocks if you have lot of Guards).
That saves rrs and makes blocking more effective as well.
Without Guard spam you have to 2d block quite often, I don't like that, especially with Blockless Ogres.
About the Snotlings: I fire any Snotling that doesn't roll a double/+MA/+AG at first skill up.
They are very squishy and have a terrible statline, therefore stacking regular skills on them is not worthwhile. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Apr 28, 2017 - 23:28 |
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If you search there is a few threads on Ogre tactics here. How to actually successfully attack and defend (occasionally) is probably more the issue with ogre coaching rather than the limited skill choice selection. Only a few good options for skills.
No one will argue with you about block, if you can get it, being key. Also your (and Paradock's) piling on advice is based on old rules.
Personally I have often had 4 or less Ogres instead of 5 many times but that was due to them being clawpombed to death and lacking money to replace. 5+ seems to be more common with successful(ish) teams. Not many teams manage to get many very experienced ogres at one time.
Substantial snot bench is definitely preferable to occasionally mean you get to the 2nd half with 11 players. My team doesn't have as much snot tv bloat has it did (had a stat-up snot quartet for a while) though the legend is rather pricey! Doubling a snot's price for having a skill is harsh.
Break Tackle is very helpful for mobility indeed and I don't think it is dependent on stat increases. Certainly worth having 2 or 3 with it. Guard of course is important though bonehead messes it up (amongst messing up many things).
Choice of pass is rather controversial. Maybe if you are lucky to say have 4 multi skilled ogres it could be an option.
You should play on FUMBBL though it can be tough.
I won my last Box match with my old Ogre team against some Necros with "legend" coach, and without even a ttm TD. There was much rejoicing at such a rare event. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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yarrick1imperial
Joined: Apr 28, 2017
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Apr 29, 2017 - 05:26 |
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Thanks for the info guys i did get this Ogre Team The Mightyblow Maulers to 2400 TV on Cyanide and there win % is at about 50% give or take given the Pass NOS Accurate ogre that is in that team... plus an annoying level 6 ag4 MV6 snot
I will Play ogres a bit to get them skilled up here, as alot of my game i lost due to the in ability to have decent skills for my playing style, like i said it takes an age to make a great Ogre team but it can be done and i am telling you, hands down the way to winning with ogres is have a decent offense to make the plays that they are good at...
try defending against it its damn hard even if you stay back then the ogres will overwhelm you up front so it gives the Ogre coach options that they would not have..
The claw is an issue for Ogres and that's why i designed an ogre QB to score quickly to get the damn KO's back and also get you ahead on the score board.
anyways hope you find it helpful but i am yet to see an ogre team over 50% win rate show me that and i will consider my options...
kind regards
yarrick |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Apr 29, 2017 - 09:06 |
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yarrick1imperial
Joined: Apr 28, 2017
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Apr 29, 2017 - 19:04 |
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Cool thanks for the teams, they look very good well the top 3 anyway. I have built all builds possible and in OCC had the st6 block ogre with BT and the blodge ag3 Ogre as well, they are great builds and well at the mercy of the skill dice to get them... As successful as I could be with ogres the ag3 block dodge ogre is nice I still had more success with the passing ogre, now the pass NOS accurate ogre is what I have now the ogre I had before that was the BT pass Strong arm which technically does the same thing just not in tackle zones... And it's just amazing to see the little fellas fly... And score. Best I have done is 4-0 Win, and it was ticking people off the fact that I could score from off the line of scrimmage... The only change I would prob make in league play is change the accurate to pro so he would have had pass NOS Pro because strong arm does the same thing as accurate... But I was expermenting with the pass ogre and wanted to make him a 2+ throw with the built in reroll so my reroll for landing was there... If he gets another then I will prob take pro but block is also a great option but I got other ogres with block... So I might just keep him as a QB ogre and keep focusing on throwing snots. |
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