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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 27, 2017 - 19:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Magicporncup wrote:
I understand your point. What about the ogre? Seems to me like even if he increase TV, he make bash easier versus agile. Though he really increase tv...


This is not the case. The ogre is slow and can be mitigated with a single blodge SSer because you're either going to bonehead trying to block with the ogre, not get the pows you need or wind up providing 2 assists to get a 3d6 and block off SS positions.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 27, 2017 - 19:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Try two different Human teams, one with the Ogre and one without. You'll come to appreciate the Ogre's strength in matchups against the heavies, and hate his Bonehead/Loner/S-only-skill-access when you play against anyone else. They're your best players on one hand, but on the other hand they don't punch their weight, TV-wise.

I like taking an Ogre in longer-running leagues, and not taking one in Ranked or Box, unless I roll a bunch of +ST and think I can roll heavy, and when I do I get punished with a 55-60% win rate rather than 65-70% without an Ogre. I tend not to take one in short leagues with a reset at end of season, there are better ways to spend your money.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
Oly1987



Joined: Oct 02, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 27, 2017 - 20:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Any race is good if you can win consistently with them Wink
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 27, 2017 - 21:52 Reply with quote Back to top

humans can do well with dirty player, dauntless, and shadowing.

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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 01:06 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
licker wrote:
People can tell you how fine humans are, but the statistics do not support their claims.

Humans are not really good in any TV range. That doesn't mean they can't be enjoyable to play, but ultimately most other teams are still mechanically advantaged against them.
Beyond just enjoying the game, you can definitely win with Humans. My "serious" Human builds do at least as well as my overall win rate with other races. Heck, even the Ranked Amateurs are only a few % below my average. I've won a RRR with Humans. Humans can compete at low and middling TV. They're not the "best" but they do very well against some races that are among the best, like Wood Elves.


I do not take any R stats as being remotely meaningful.

Humans are at the lower end of Tier 1 for a reason, and while certainly a great coach can win with any roster, they will win less with Humans.

Facts, check them out.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 04:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Well lower end of tier 1 is probably better than middle of the list?
In tabletop resurrection tournaments they are normally put in tier 2 for skill packages, which helps make them a good choice along with the starting skills, strength access blitzers and good speed.

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A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 05:20 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
Well lower end of tier 1 is probably better than middle of the list?
In tabletop resurrection tournaments they are normally put in tier 2 for skill packages, which helps make them a good choice along with the starting skills, strength access blitzers and good speed.


No.

Lower end of tier 1 puts them ahead of stunties, vamps, and slann. Maybe Pact as well. (its a whole thing about the way tiers are defined, don't ask, if I were defining tiers they'd be tier 3)

They are not 'good', but, of course, many people still enjoy playing them.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 28, 2017 - 16:09 Reply with quote Back to top

I think that humans are solid at low TV, decent at middling TV, and "better than tier 2" at high TV.

At low TV, humans are better than a lot of teams. I'd take Humans over "slow-starting" teams like Nurgle given competent coaches on both sides and 1M rosters.

At mid TV, humans aren't really a top roster or anything, but they're good against the best. Amazons and Wood Elves hate playing good Humans at this value.

Anything beyond that, I agree with Licker. Humans more or less define the bottom third or so of races, unless you have a couple special players (Human teams with multiple +AG Catchers and some nasty Blitzers are at least about average). Humans did go 15-7-6 in played NBFL games last season, and included a first-seed team (plus a playoff bridesmaid). But that first-seed team was the kind of humans I noted above, with the multiple +AG Catchers and good Blitzers. This season, Kryten's not got all that stuff, and I expect him to have a harder go of it.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
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