celas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Apr 14, 2005 - 05:18 |
 
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This post is designed for feedback on the Majik Pelota Tourney. Please place constructive comments below. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2005 - 05:48 |
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Hmmm. It certainly scores points for creativity. I sure didn't see that one coming.
I'm a little concerned that it might be somewhat over-designed. Did you ever see an ad in a magazine that looks like the designer just couldn't stop adding little touches to it and ended up making a bit of a mess out of it? I'm a little concerned that you may have overdone it a bit, to the point where games could well end up being spent trying to remember the rules, rather than enjoying the game.
This is without playtesting them yet, however, so I could well be wrong on that. It just seems like a bit... much... at first glance.
Oh yeah... regarding the no stalling rule, how's about a slightly modified approach. The current one simply seems a little arbitrary. Perhaps a "sportsmanship" total at the end would work. In addition to the points for wins, ties and scores, each coach can deduct one point from either of their opponents if they specifically state their reasons for doing so in the match report. It would require manual checking and tallying but, given the crew we have for MNF, I wouldn't expect it to be a problem anyway. |
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Apr 14, 2005 - 15:08 |
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Wow. I´ve heard rumours about you being fond of writing celas, but little did i know.. 
Honestly i have no idea of how your ideas will work out. I´m completely in the dark on this one, but off course, being who i am, i have some questions as to understanding the rules as well as comments to some. Here goes :
| Quote: | | 3. Players may not cross over into another path unless it is the result of a block or blitz. Therefore, a player could be pushed into another path or block/blitz a player on a square adjacent to a path and follow up the block. A player can also throw or hand off the ball into another path. Players may not take a move action to go across into another path. |
Interesting idea really. Can a player taking a blitz action move seamlessly between paths before or after hitting someone? or does it have to be the impact with the other player (the follow-up move) that puts him over the line? I´m guessing the latter, could you confirm this?
It might be an interesting idea to allow the player blitzing to move between paths, just to offer a bit more mobillity to the teams. (i´m picturing chaos crowding the LOS against WE, ball lands in an "alley", cw picks it up supported by a beastman and walks it calmly to the endzone only opposed by 2 WE´s lino´s who at best gets a 1dblock). Just a thought.
| Quote: | | 5. Teams are not allowed to stall. Since this is difficult to enforce, the official ruling will be that if a player with the ball has an open path to the endzone (defined as having enough MV to enter the endzone without needing to make a die roll on a dodge, gfi, etc.), then s/he must score, unless the player’s team ends its turn with a turnover. |
Your definition is quite clear, but off course easily open to exploitation. I doubt that it will happen, but the risk is certainly there. Maybe better to skip the rule and hope for the good nature of the MNF coaches to show it self? Also it makes it hard to distribute spp´s when in a good position to do so. Admitted, i´m grasping at straws here, but i really don´t like the rule.
Some random thoughts and ramblings
Basically there is a lot of rules but no consequences. And i could easily imagine the rules being broken by mistake. Then what? Just laugh, say "duh, i´m sorry" and move on? Fine by me, if that´s the solution  .
The LOS-crowding favours the bashy boys whereas the restriction on movement and access to "path-changing" skills (dt and ss) on a normal roll favours ag teams. The scoring part favours speedthough. All IMO of course. Did anyone say "skaven"? Don´t know what i mean to say about this, it just feels wrong in some way.
I don´t particulary think this format would make fun games....more like high-bashing or high-scoring games. The team that wins the toss has a clear advantage imo.
The conclusion
Fun idea, nice fluff, very creative.
I´ll try it out 
M |
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Slartibart
Joined: Feb 21, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2005 - 21:26 |
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maybe i missed it ...
how does one get the ball? |
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screech
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Apr 14, 2005 - 22:21 |
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I find it funny how in a tournament which has wizards having an ubiquitous presense in the game, and has them exerting an exacting control over how the game is played, a team still can't hire a wizard for a bit more direct influence.
Well I guess I can see how devastating a wizard could be with players bunched up together on the los.
Of a serious note, what happens when these rules get broken? Say a player scores in an area that the team has already scored in? I'm not saying by coaching error, (although I can see this happening) but say a player was pushed into the wrong area of the end zone via a block, or maybe the crowd threw the ball into a player's hands in the wrong part of the end zone. Spectating refs?
What else..
Would it be considered stalling if instead of easily walking in a td a coaches opts to pass or handoff the ball to another player, and that player cannot score that turn(dropped ball, lack of mp, and so on)?
OK passblock cannot cross paths, but would diving catch be considered a skill that allows one to cross into different lanes?
What happens if the ball is in a zone which neither team has a player in? Figure out how to chain push your player into the zone?
I dunno it's hard to determine how the game will play out, without actually playing a game. Well I have a couple of U teams if you want to do some playtesting. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2005 - 22:56 |
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Also, you can play a 'friendly' if you want to playtest it. Just turn off the fumbbl login option and play with whatever team you want. No results will get uploaded and all is well.
I was thinking that perhaps the amulets cause feedback with the magical barriers and players can only cross the lines when they're in contact with an opposing team member. That way you can rationalize sidestepping into the center, for example or blitzing an opponent on the other side of the wall to follow up into the alley. Just another way of looking at it from the fluff side, I guess. Could lead to the idea of allowing movement actions across but ONLY when in opposing tacklezones - which would sure help out our stunty friends.
Just to get my gratuitous predicition in (I always have to have a prediction...), I'm saying that Chaos and Nurgle will have the advantage in this one - dwarves and chaos dwarves will have all that lovely guard and tackle and Skaven would do well if they could survive the frequent beatings on the line, but Chaos and Nurgle
- can get guard on every player with normal rolls
- have access to extra strength on the line and can obviously take the frequent beating
- Well-suited big guys (frenzy mino in the alley? Yikes! Beast with tentacles and a Rotter in the alley? Yikes!) - although RO might actually be the best (prehensile tail! Frenzy!) |
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TheLegend
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2005 - 22:59 |
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sounds a little interesting... a little funny... and a lot complicated... I'm gonna keep my eye on this thread and see what happens |
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Azurus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2005 - 23:09 |
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| BadMrMojo wrote: | | I'm saying that Chaos and Nurgle will have the advantage in this one |
My bets on CDs - CDBs & troll in centre, a bc & a hobbo in each wide zone. Strength it the scrum and (comparative) speed out wide.
Fairly obvious AV 7 teams are a no-go in this tourney though. Actually, why was the '7 on LOS' rule made? The ball landing in the middle will likely make a mess of most bashy team's drive since they'll probably have to dodge out.
Kick will be everyones first skill pick, too. |
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TheLegend
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2005 - 23:48 |
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not to burst your bubble, but kick is completely and utterly useless in this format.
And if an elf team somehow manages to survive, LEAP will be the #1 most usefull skill in this game |
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Azurus
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 14, 2005 - 23:52 |
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| The_Legend wrote: | | not to burst your bubble, but kick is completely and utterly useless in this format. |
heh, forgot the positioning clause in kick  |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 00:31 |
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Trif
Joined: Jun 10, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 01:24 |
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what has that ^ got to do with the thread though, evo? =)
i quite like the idea, but i cant imagine how it will pan out |
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celas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 03:03 |
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Thanks for all the feedback. And keep it coming. Let me try to address a few of the points:
1) Stalling should not be an issue for the MNF crowd. They are all a good bunch (come play MNF and find out yourself). If you want to try a move (i.e., pass or hand off) that could end your turn, then go for it.
2) All the rules probably ARE a little too much at first and will require playtesting (however, see 12 below).
3) A point scoring system would be grand. I just felt like I wanted to put the idea out there before I ruminated anymore about it. It's been cooking for a few weeks and needed some outside opinions.
4) MNF Leagues, aside from the Four-Ball format generally do not last long enough for more that a few AG 2 players on a team to gain a skill, so there may not be that much guard, even in the course of a 8-10 game season. Thus, I would expect high AG teams to be able to compete for a quite a while. The example of skaven dominating is an interesting one. A Skaven LoS would be crushed and AG 3 would not allow for frequent dodging without injuring oneself. They would be able to score and ROs would be great, but they can only guard one alley or the middle path. AV 7 teams may not struggle as much as you would think. Woodies and Pros can dodge away; Amazon too, plus dodge will prevent some injury. Norse will be able to 1D block as well as dwarves, and having potentially 5 players with frenzy is not a bad option. While bashy teams can stay at the line and fight, they will still have to do some planning to run backward to retrieve the ball (depending on the placement).
5) A blitzing played may not move seemlessly between the paths during a blitz ation. Instead they can blitz a player on the opposite side of the path, who is also adjacent to the path.
6) This type of tourney may very well favor chaos or rotters, but are you aware of any other tourneys that favor these skill-less bastards besides the typical...last man standing, kill the opponents team tourneys without much strategy? (I think orcs or dwarves are better for them anyway)
7) The wizards are busy enough maintaining the magical barriers in between the paths to cast other spells. Plus, they sure the heck are not about to let any outside wizards steal their thunder by zapping and fireballing the pitch.
 Rule enforcement can take on a number of forms. If the illegal move is caught before an action is stopped, the player could be alerted to undo the move even if it requires a dodge or gfi. If it is spotted after the action, then the player could be made inactive (i.e., could not take any action on the rest of this drive) and/or forced to undo the move on the first action of the next turn, even if it results in a dodge into 3 TZs (losing a turn helps people remember the rules and could bring a table top feel for moving in the appropriate manner). Also the turn should immediately be ended after the initial illegal move.
9) Passblock does not work between the paths, and diving catch will not be an issue....because....this skill is taken as frequently as Two Heads on a Chaos Warrior with Claw.
10) Whenever the rules get hammered out, the tourney will run using one team of each race. This should help to point out which teams have the advantage. Most people probably think that the 4ball/5ball format has obvious advantages too, but as I have demonstrated with MNF, the rules can be tweaked to even up the playing field.
11) If anyone wants to playtest a game of this (maybe on stand alone as suggested above), let me know or try it with another interested party.
12) The rules may be complicated, but if newbies can digest the 40-some pages of the LRB, I think us vets can handle a few more if we have a printer handy...
13) I am up for running a regular tourney of LRB teams for MNF....I just like there to be a little something extra to them. As always, I am open to suggestions. Thanks to
all for the feedback....keep it coming. |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 15, 2005 - 03:31 |
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The concept seems pretty interesting, although it would probably take a game or two to get all the rules down well. It reminded me of the recent Street Ball thread, in that it is a twist on the regular game to change things up. Makes me wonder about other possible twists...
The client isn't currently amenable to a twist such as Street Ball, but Majik Pelota could work with a bit of self-monitoring. I just wanted to say kudos for creating something interesting- good luck with the fine-tuning and implementation!
Regards,
~hunter |
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celas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2005 - 19:25 |
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