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Motskari



Joined: Dec 03, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2017 - 11:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Kondor wrote:
At what TV do you start investing in DPs? Surely not too soon.


Idea behind the team was too long has woodies been pushed around and we decided to go fouly route from the beginning. I think we had 2 dp:s with 11 elves. From 150 tr we carried two of them. Third came very late, something like 250+.
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2017 - 16:21 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
I would also like to point out that Zombies who only take DP and only DP with no effort to at least get Block are sub optimal players in a higher TV range of games.

WHY?

Because if you are playing a 2000TV type game they turn into liabilities because they have no Block. They are easy to neutralize and isolate. Thus they never actually get to throw DP shots at the rate you are wanting to.


I'm not going to comment on the nonsense of taking a ton of DP for an elf team other than this. The 'TV Exchange' does actually matter, if you ignore it you are hurting your teams chances.

However, DP and only DP on zombies is the goal, or should be.

Those players are disposable fodder who occasionally get a boot in.

If the opponent wants to waste their time marking a one skill zombie out of the game...

Well, I think the Undead/Necro player wins that exchange. It's not as though the fouling teams NEED to foul all the time, they have that as an option, but it's always more important for slower teams to be able to control or moderate the position. And your worst player tying up (being tied up by) one of your opponents players is almost always a net win for you.

Besides, at higher TVs you will have 2+ DPs anyway, now your opponent is going to spend multiple players tying up what are still your worst players?

Do you even position bro?
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2017 - 21:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Giving the zombie block at least gives them some options for when they can make 2d blocks and not having to worry much about both downs. Then leading to more chances to get fouls.
Though I am just accustomed to using multi-skilled zombies. My team is definitely bloated but I think Block or Wrestle on top of DP for a couple of players is fine.
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=648436

Also I lost a legend Ghoul to an Elf dirty player!

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A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2017 - 23:34 Reply with quote Back to top

1 wrestle-zombie + 1 dirty-zombie is better than 1 no-skill-zombie + 1 wrestle-dirty-zombie

because a wrestle-dirty-zombie can't put someone on the floor and then foul them by himself (in your turn)
also because if the fouler gets sent off, you want the wrestle skill to remain on the pitch

If your roster is not full, it's not good to stack more skills on your foulers.
So they shouldn't get MVP and shouldn't skill up ever really


Last edited by Sp00keh on Oct 21, 2017 - 10:31; edited 2 times in total
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 02:25 Reply with quote Back to top

You are probably right on that point. Especially now MVPs can be directed to make it easier to do that. But as your TV goes up you can absorbo and mae use of some more skilled zombies.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 02:50 Reply with quote Back to top

licker wrote:
PainState wrote:
I would also like to point out that Zombies who only take DP and only DP with no effort to at least get Block are sub optimal players in a higher TV range of games.

WHY?

Because if you are playing a 2000TV type game they turn into liabilities because they have no Block. They are easy to neutralize and isolate. Thus they never actually get to throw DP shots at the rate you are wanting to.


I'm not going to comment on the nonsense of taking a ton of DP for an elf team other than this. The 'TV Exchange' does actually matter, if you ignore it you are hurting your teams chances.

However, DP and only DP on zombies is the goal, or should be.

Those players are disposable fodder who occasionally get a boot in.

If the opponent wants to waste their time marking a one skill zombie out of the game...

Well, I think the Undead/Necro player wins that exchange. It's not as though the fouling teams NEED to foul all the time, they have that as an option, but it's always more important for slower teams to be able to control or moderate the position. And your worst player tying up (being tied up by) one of your opponents players is almost always a net win for you.

Besides, at higher TVs you will have 2+ DPs anyway, now your opponent is going to spend multiple players tying up what are still your worst players?

Do you even position bro?


Multiple DP Elves are fine. In the NBFL. Wink

Seriously, a 90k for 90k+ happens all the time.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 03:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I wouldn't have built him this way if he weren't an LRB6 MVP sponge, but Nosferatu is a great player. Very versatile.

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What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 04:39 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:


Multiple DP Elves are fine. In the NBFL. Wink

Seriously, a 90k for 90k+ happens all the time.


Leagues are a different kind of animal, especially a league like NBFL.

But it was being posited to take multiple DP elfs, and that would be a silly thing to do in NBFL for other reasons too.

Essentially though, if we're talking about TV based match making then 'bloat', while still somewhat subjective, is a bad thing as it is adding less useful skills/TV to your team while you are (potentially) facing teams with more useful skills/TV.
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 05:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Something that was devasting against me once was an undead team that fouled EVERY turn, who had grab on both his mummies. Grab was fantastic at isolating my players to set them up for fouls! It's better than you might think.

If you want to learn the art of fouling, well worth watching this replay:

https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3873100

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I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 05:41 Reply with quote Back to top

I know I was just throwing tacks on the road Wink
dolphinandrew



Joined: May 09, 2017

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 09:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I tend to put getting rid of dirty players from the field as a moderately high priority when blocking, and lots of people seem to do the same. That suggests to me they are worth something.
ThierryM



Joined: Mar 27, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 09:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Remember the FF Rule, dominating all others.
Foul First.
Ok, ok, my team is made of players worth 40 TV....
It might explain the N°1 rule.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 14:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I think at least 1 DP can be useful on any team for 'surgical' fouling. Teams have different definitions of what 'surgical' means though: elves perform surgery with a laser-guided scalpel; Khemri do it with an atom bomb! Razz

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licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 21, 2017 - 20:14 Reply with quote Back to top

dolphinandrew wrote:
I tend to put getting rid of dirty players from the field as a moderately high priority when blocking, and lots of people seem to do the same. That suggests to me they are worth something.


They are worth something. But they are worth different things to different teams.

They are worth less (not worthless) to elves than they are to Khemri for example. Khemri will happily run 14+ players with 2+ dirty players.

Elves probably shouldn't run 14+ players, and probably should run 2- dirty players, but frequently will find that zero is the correct number as well Smile
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