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ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 01:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I think Orcs are the only team I regularly play as who are considered a good majors team (I roll Orcs, Humans, Undead, and Zons). What do you think is a good roster to build for for a majors?

First real question is troll, troll and gobbo, or no troll?

Other than that I am guessing 4-5 rerolls, apo, leader thrower orc, 4 block, guard, mb Bobs, 2 killer blitzers, 2 guard blitzers, as much guard and + stats as I can get on the positional, and enough line orcs to take the roster to 14 or 15 with dirty player on any of them that skill up and don't roll +st or guard?
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 01:57 Reply with quote Back to top

troll and gobbo

the troll is essential as a roadblock as you get higher in TV. and if you have the troll, then 40TV for a T16 OTT chance is cheap, so why the hell not?

given the current rules, I like to have 14 or 15 on the roster, with at least two DP lineorcs, and foul seelctively til they are gone, Orcs suffer alot from the current claw/mb rule, so fouling helps compensate for this.

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 03:45 Reply with quote Back to top

You will, at some point on your way to winning the fumbbl cup, face ...

A team with natural 1-turners and a blitzer who can push anything to make a hole for them.
Eleven blodgestep DT elves who never fail a dodge, with a lot of AG 5 leap and some guard.
A wall of ST 4/5 Guard Claw MB, with optional Tentacles.
A wall of ST 4/5 Guardfirm DT, with STAG blitzers to pick off whatever gets though.
A team with 5+ DP and a bit of Frenzy and Grab so they can just always gang foul, and they get 800k inducements on you so I hope you have a RR buffer for the chef as well as a deep bench.
Some poor unfortunate Dwarfs who barely got past the previous wall of Guard/Claw/MB, but can still 2d MB you all day and now have three bribes for their two DP.
Six superstar Vampires who make almost all of their gaze rolls and thus get ST4 tackle/MB on the ball every turn and no your cage doesn't have Guard now.
Maybe some frogs with seemingly infinite blodgefirm guard DT leap.

Yes, you need a Troll, and it needs Block, Guard, and Stand Firm. Learn to play with 2-3 RRs and then carry more for the cup. You need a couple +AG blitzer/thrower types, a few +ST, a lot of DT, everyone with MB and Guard and Tackle, a lot of Stand Firm, and a bench for DP and taking the claw hits on the line. People should look at your Orcs and think "what do I even try against that", and the answer will usually be "I'll just C/MB them until they go away".

Which is how many Orcs meet their end in the fumbbl cup, but also because Lizards are very fast and Elves do not fall over much, and sometimes because you didn't bring enough Guard to handle Dorfs who all have Guard and a bit of +ST.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 05:51 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:

Which is how many Orcs meet their end in the fumbbl cup, but also because Lizards are very fast and Elves do not fall over much, and sometimes because you didn't bring enough Guard to handle Dorfs who all have Guard and a bit of +ST.


yup. i am firmly of the opinion that orcs are no lonfer tier 1 at high tv. mid tv they are great tho.

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Joost



Joined: Mar 17, 2014

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 08:38 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the troll is a liability, personally. I believe it isnt worth it, perhaps unless you get a double skill quickly for block. They will fail a RS roll on a critical moment. You could minimise that by not doing an action with them and just profit from their Guard / Stand Firm, but I'm not sure if that's worth the 150 TV you add to the team. Then again, my orcs got kicked out of the fumbbl cup by one of the nightmares tussock describes (lots of +ST, tents, etc.). So maybe I'll have to change my thinking Smile
delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 11:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Orcs don't have many advantages. Their main ones are Armor and Strength.
If you remove a troll, you loose a regen AV9 player as well as a str5 player.

You also loose the ability to 1 turn, even keeping a gobbo on the bench is worth it just for the chance t8 or 16. If that is your game, then getting Pro ahead of block is worthwhile.

More to the point, if your main advantage is Strength and you Vs Chaos Dwarfs, Lizards or Chaos. Do you want the troll or not. I would say a definite yes. No troll and your ST4 black orc blockers will not be enough.
b4nshee



Joined: Sep 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 12:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Just as Tussock says: In the course of a Major you will not only have to face some of the World's best coaches - you will have to face teams that come with a multitude of very different approaches of how they want to be successfull. NO team is a favorite against all of those threats by itself. It also greatly depends on the coach and - you gotta be honest! - the neccessary luck on those game deciding dice rolls.

That said, you also have to be honest: Orcs can be build to counter various threats. But Claw+MB is VERY hard to overcome for them. If your opponent has only one or two of those killers you may have chances to minimize their effectiveness by feeding them rookie linos or keeping them prone or even sending them off the pitch with blocks and/or fouls. But facing the typical Chaos/Nurgle/ChaosDwarf build with more than two of 'em makes you donate to Nuffle before the game.

Orcs are definitely NOT the best choice if you want to win a major (or at least have a deep run).

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Relezite



Joined: May 21, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 14:09 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:
yup. i am firmly of the opinion that orcs are no lonfer tier 1 at high tv. mid tv they are great tho.


Agreed. At this point, Orcs feel like bad Nurgle at high TV to me.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 17:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I run Orcs in the NBFL. I do alright, thanks: just had a 25-game unbeaten streak (including a championship) get snapped. But I had to get all kinds of breaks to make that championship, it was lightning in a bottle. If I were just in it to maximize my victory chances, I'd have picked a different race. They're not elite, but they're playable. If you think of the broad tiers, they're definitely "tier 1", but they're probably not in the top 1/3 of teams for winning games. Top half, maybe.

I don't take a Troll, that helps: Trolls have utility but aren't worth the body that you need to dedicate to babysitting them, not against really good coaches. And if a major run is anything like a high TV league full of elite coaches (only harder), you'll have the same problems with your Troll in that environment. The team really sings, though, once you can get a good carrier Blitzer with Dodge and Sure Hands and some stats, and a bunch of B/MB/T/G Blitzers and BOBs with some SF thrown in to stop those OTS attempts and breakaway plays. Oh, and some DP linos.

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bram



Joined: Jan 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 18:58 Reply with quote Back to top

I brought Gilgorod's Tribe to the Fumbbl Cup as I thought that with all the stats and skills they would stand a chance.

Got slaughtered in round 1 by Khemri during this game. AV9 is a myth...
Soulmask



Joined: May 11, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 12:22 Reply with quote Back to top

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=367723
Orc team who got in finals of last fumbbl cup, no trolls, no throwers, skilled linos, 180 CR coach.

Some people like only skilling positionals like blitzers, leaving 0 or 1 skill linos, and putting all their spp on 4-6 key players, but those lineups are countered by claw/mb/tackle or mb/tackle + dp teams.

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Brainsaw



Joined: Sep 27, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 18:24 Reply with quote Back to top

no, you dont need a troll to reach FC finals... Wink

personally i think they are just too unreliable for their price/TW. at some point in my orc career, i decided, they are not worth their money and decided to dont use them at any TW range.

i will reconsider, if rules are changed, so that they are able to eat elves though ,-)
Keothi



Joined: Jul 08, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 05:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm disappointed that I didn't get to take this team into Premier League for a shot against some excellent coaches and teams in SWL before the League finished up under CRP.

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&team_id=805182

Team sits at roughly 2500 tv and has most of the skills I'd want it to have to have a good chance of winning against a variety of teams. The team captain dropped from ST5,AG4,M7 Block, Sure Hands, Stand Firm with a -AG injury last season. But the question about to Troll or not to Troll is answered here; this is when it is good to Troll...

https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=10635032

I also Goblin - but have yet to score a 1TTD via Throw Team Mate. I've come damn close a number of times... However! This goblin with blodge, sidestep and diving tackle has saved a game when I used Throw Team Mate to get him in range of a Norse runaway ball carrier. And I've used him to tie up a deep receiver using the TTM option on a blitz result. Failing the TTM on defence doesn't cause a turnover so was worth a shot. I managed to get some other players within TZ/assist of the BC as I could not blitz the ball carrier. SS+DT on that Goblin via a good throw saved the day.

To flesh out this side, I want more Stand Firm on the BOBs, Guard on any BOB missing it and Mighty Blow. Juggs is also on the cards for the Blitzer currently on Block, Guard Tackle then Mighty Blow.

Rookie lineman is tagged for DP

I'd buy another 1-2 rookie linemen for fodder if facing lots of Claw+MB

But all in all, it's a great side/build and because I'm an average coach still learning how to play good BB I haven't done the team justice.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 06:38 Reply with quote Back to top

If you are going to use a Troll you really should take a Goblin. Even if all the Goblin does is ride the bench waiting for a Turn 8, Turn 16 TTM attempt. He is worth the 40k to potentially be a snack for your Troll... or SPLAT Jelly... or A FLYING HERO.

But... remember 1 Troll = 3 Lineman on TV.
And lately I have been thinking a bench of AG3 AV9 cannon fodder to potentially Dodge or Pick UP the Ball sometimes... but mostly to stick next to the baddest baddies your opponent has so that he can punch them in the face over and over tend to keep your BOBs and Blitzers free to do what they have to do to win.
They don't need babysitters. If they die you replace them easy. They won't go Really Stupid. You can afford to Foul with them when you finally get a chance to make some BOOT Jelly out of a War Dancer or some Ultra Killer. They can get DP easy. They can carry some Tackle to help you with Elves and Skinks etc.

Plus...
this roster... 4 BOBs, 4 Blitzers, 6 Linemen (14 players)
is only 10K more than...
this roster... 4 BOBs, 4 Blitzers, 1 Troll, 1 Goblin, 2 Linemen (12 players)

Nothing wrong with the Troll and Gobbo game.
And using the extra Lineman is a different animal that has to be used differently especially when you roll into Basher Town... but it's worth giving it a try sometime.
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 09:32 Reply with quote Back to top

The troll is okay in some matchups, but it is an absolute liability vs agility. I have sacked orc ballers with darkelves a lot by exposing the troll.

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