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ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 01:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I think Orcs are the only team I regularly play as who are considered a good majors team (I roll Orcs, Humans, Undead, and Zons). What do you think is a good roster to build for for a majors?

First real question is troll, troll and gobbo, or no troll?

Other than that I am guessing 4-5 rerolls, apo, leader thrower orc, 4 block, guard, mb Bobs, 2 killer blitzers, 2 guard blitzers, as much guard and + stats as I can get on the positional, and enough line orcs to take the roster to 14 or 15 with dirty player on any of them that skill up and don't roll +st or guard?
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 01:57 Reply with quote Back to top

troll and gobbo

the troll is essential as a roadblock as you get higher in TV. and if you have the troll, then 40TV for a T16 OTT chance is cheap, so why the hell not?

given the current rules, I like to have 14 or 15 on the roster, with at least two DP lineorcs, and foul seelctively til they are gone, Orcs suffer alot from the current claw/mb rule, so fouling helps compensate for this.

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 03:45 Reply with quote Back to top

You will, at some point on your way to winning the fumbbl cup, face ...

A team with natural 1-turners and a blitzer who can push anything to make a hole for them.
Eleven blodgestep DT elves who never fail a dodge, with a lot of AG 5 leap and some guard.
A wall of ST 4/5 Guard Claw MB, with optional Tentacles.
A wall of ST 4/5 Guardfirm DT, with STAG blitzers to pick off whatever gets though.
A team with 5+ DP and a bit of Frenzy and Grab so they can just always gang foul, and they get 800k inducements on you so I hope you have a RR buffer for the chef as well as a deep bench.
Some poor unfortunate Dwarfs who barely got past the previous wall of Guard/Claw/MB, but can still 2d MB you all day and now have three bribes for their two DP.
Six superstar Vampires who make almost all of their gaze rolls and thus get ST4 tackle/MB on the ball every turn and no your cage doesn't have Guard now.
Maybe some frogs with seemingly infinite blodgefirm guard DT leap.

Yes, you need a Troll, and it needs Block, Guard, and Stand Firm. Learn to play with 2-3 RRs and then carry more for the cup. You need a couple +AG blitzer/thrower types, a few +ST, a lot of DT, everyone with MB and Guard and Tackle, a lot of Stand Firm, and a bench for DP and taking the claw hits on the line. People should look at your Orcs and think "what do I even try against that", and the answer will usually be "I'll just C/MB them until they go away".

Which is how many Orcs meet their end in the fumbbl cup, but also because Lizards are very fast and Elves do not fall over much, and sometimes because you didn't bring enough Guard to handle Dorfs who all have Guard and a bit of +ST.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 05:51 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:

Which is how many Orcs meet their end in the fumbbl cup, but also because Lizards are very fast and Elves do not fall over much, and sometimes because you didn't bring enough Guard to handle Dorfs who all have Guard and a bit of +ST.


yup. i am firmly of the opinion that orcs are no lonfer tier 1 at high tv. mid tv they are great tho.

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Joost



Joined: Mar 17, 2014

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 08:38 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the troll is a liability, personally. I believe it isnt worth it, perhaps unless you get a double skill quickly for block. They will fail a RS roll on a critical moment. You could minimise that by not doing an action with them and just profit from their Guard / Stand Firm, but I'm not sure if that's worth the 150 TV you add to the team. Then again, my orcs got kicked out of the fumbbl cup by one of the nightmares tussock describes (lots of +ST, tents, etc.). So maybe I'll have to change my thinking Smile
delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 11:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Orcs don't have many advantages. Their main ones are Armor and Strength.
If you remove a troll, you loose a regen AV9 player as well as a str5 player.

You also loose the ability to 1 turn, even keeping a gobbo on the bench is worth it just for the chance t8 or 16. If that is your game, then getting Pro ahead of block is worthwhile.

More to the point, if your main advantage is Strength and you Vs Chaos Dwarfs, Lizards or Chaos. Do you want the troll or not. I would say a definite yes. No troll and your ST4 black orc blockers will not be enough.
b4nshee



Joined: Sep 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 12:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Just as Tussock says: In the course of a Major you will not only have to face some of the World's best coaches - you will have to face teams that come with a multitude of very different approaches of how they want to be successfull. NO team is a favorite against all of those threats by itself. It also greatly depends on the coach and - you gotta be honest! - the neccessary luck on those game deciding dice rolls.

That said, you also have to be honest: Orcs can be build to counter various threats. But Claw+MB is VERY hard to overcome for them. If your opponent has only one or two of those killers you may have chances to minimize their effectiveness by feeding them rookie linos or keeping them prone or even sending them off the pitch with blocks and/or fouls. But facing the typical Chaos/Nurgle/ChaosDwarf build with more than two of 'em makes you donate to Nuffle before the game.

Orcs are definitely NOT the best choice if you want to win a major (or at least have a deep run).

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Relezite



Joined: May 21, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 14:09 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:
yup. i am firmly of the opinion that orcs are no lonfer tier 1 at high tv. mid tv they are great tho.


Agreed. At this point, Orcs feel like bad Nurgle at high TV to me.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 17:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I run Orcs in the NBFL. I do alright, thanks: just had a 25-game unbeaten streak (including a championship) get snapped. But I had to get all kinds of breaks to make that championship, it was lightning in a bottle. If I were just in it to maximize my victory chances, I'd have picked a different race. They're not elite, but they're playable. If you think of the broad tiers, they're definitely "tier 1", but they're probably not in the top 1/3 of teams for winning games. Top half, maybe.

I don't take a Troll, that helps: Trolls have utility but aren't worth the body that you need to dedicate to babysitting them, not against really good coaches. And if a major run is anything like a high TV league full of elite coaches (only harder), you'll have the same problems with your Troll in that environment. The team really sings, though, once you can get a good carrier Blitzer with Dodge and Sure Hands and some stats, and a bunch of B/MB/T/G Blitzers and BOBs with some SF thrown in to stop those OTS attempts and breakaway plays. Oh, and some DP linos.

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bram



Joined: Jan 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2017 - 18:58 Reply with quote Back to top

I brought Gilgorod's Tribe to the Fumbbl Cup as I thought that with all the stats and skills they would stand a chance.

Got slaughtered in round 1 by Khemri during this game. AV9 is a myth...
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