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almic85



Joined: May 25, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 16, 2018 - 11:14 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:

[edit] And guys, there's no natural S access on Elves, so don't throw around "with mb" and "with guard" as if this is an inevitability - yes, there's a reasonable chance you get a double (probability), but there's also a very fair chance you don't.


My bad on that one. Even though I am using them in league I forgot that they don't get natural S access.

Still he has to make a decision on whether guard or mighty blow is the right choice if/when he does roll a double.

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Keothi



Joined: Jul 08, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 16, 2018 - 22:41 Reply with quote Back to top

All good points ArrestedDevelopment - and I'll be honest I've never played pro-elves; only High Elf, Woodies who are an incredibly versatile Elven side - those starting positionals at Rookie level are crazy good... and Dark Elf. So I'll admit to being inexperienced regarding Pro Elves.

One thing I will say which is true of all elven sides though - do not neglect Kick as an early skill for a suitable line elf and personally I NEVER give my line elf that has Kick, DP. Kick has won me more games than any other skill for Elves and why you would want to risk losing such a powerful Skill on your Defence drives from a 1/6 chance of sendoff (higher if you have good assists for the foul and crack AV and then roll a second set of dice for the injury and hence another chance to get sent off) is beyond me. Being able to kick short and potentially get the Blitz result, or kick very deep to a slow team and then place a screen of Elves between the opponent's ball carrier and the rest of his team is golden.

And I think Norse demonstrate how powerful a team of skilled, AV7 line players can be. Block spam, ST3, M6... Add some Fend and dodge a couple of Block+DP linemen and you are facing a glass cannon side. Sure they can shatter, but they're just as likely to they blow holes in the opposing side and not crack first.
Joe1982



Joined: Dec 31, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 16, 2018 - 23:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Good stuff guys - interesting discussion and plenty to think about.

Thanks for the encouragement, Bram and amlic85. I've had some experience with wood elves and high elves and the survivability difference compared with pro elves seems substantial to me. Even AV 7 wood elves are so much better at staying on the pitch, mainly because they can always turn it on and force a scrap for the ball. Rookie pro elves can't always make this happen (or at least I can't!), and I find myself drawn into slow grinds that destroy my team. So, I definitely think getting 1+ skill on several lineman is important, and as soon as I have blodge blitzers and at least 2 blodge catchers I will probably try to skill some linos with MVPs and other things. I've often wondered about DP for my elves - after all, they are only 60,000 and can dodge to foul easily. I think I'll try it, but after getting some basic skills and kick. Might even put kick on a thrower, because I do feel this team really needs as many blocking/dodging skills on the linos as possibe.

I'll give this team another game at some point and see how I do Smile
Keothi



Joined: Jul 08, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 00:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Good luck with the team Joe - and a healthy debate on tactics/skills/team builds is always of benefit even if you disagree with everything written.
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 00:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
Basically i wouldn't do anything keothi suggested except watching Relezite.


+1 to this.

I start Pro Elves:

8 Lineman
2 Blitzer
1 Catcher
3 Rerolls
Apothecary
Total 1000k

or

6 Lineman
2 Blitzer
2 Catcher
1 Thrower
3 Rerolls
Total 1000k (and get an apoth ASAP no matter what happens)

2 Block means you need rerolls. Dodging out fails about 1 in 6 times, and some turns you might to dodge 4-6 guys. Passes also fail, so try and use the running game until you are more skilled up. Do not 'just pass for spp' unless the drive/half is over and there is no harm in the fail.

Kick on a thrower is a good choice, often they line up centrally and ideally you dont want to skill them for long throws, which should be avoided if possible. DP on a line elf is a great option, as not only he, but multiple assists, can dodge out and make the foul. DP+4 assists will do the job most times. A key Elf advantage is cheapness, as you say.

Be careful with them, poor av7 fools, but dont be afraid to find the 'banzai' moment when you go swamp the ball carrier/cage. With MA8 catchers you dont even need to leave one downfield (though many do) as they have the pace to get away. But at str3 they can also be of use elsewhere, somewhat unlike Wood Elf Catchers.

(I know, i know, wood elf catchers are hella useful all over the place, if you know what you're doing, but I'm trying to keep it simple.)

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Joe1982



Joined: Dec 31, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 00:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Cheers Keothi. My gut was to give this team one more game, since they are roughly at rookie level with the capability to get better quite fast (gold in the bank, positionals close to skilling up), and since in ranked doesn't matter how long it takes. My overall feeling is that pro elves need to survive long enough to able to build decent lineman. They score for fun, even more so than wood elves, so that's no issue. The trick, I think, is staying alive long enough to be able to have the skills/players to stall and at launch aggressive defensive plays. We'll see... My chaos or undead are calling for next game for a little catharsis!
Joe1982



Joined: Dec 31, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 17, 2018 - 01:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the input PurpleChest. My current team is more or less the first one you list, but with a few extra skills. However, the huge amount of loners is going to make those dodges tricky... I try and run the ball, but with this team I've not been able to do it - I stall for a couple of turns, realise I'm heading for trouble, and chuck it to a catcher which ends in a score 9/10 times. I realise in the long run the 1/10 times will bite me, but I kinda feel I'll learn the elf running game in tandem with getting some wrestle/block/dodge lineman. I've just started a wood elf team so that should improve my running game IQ too.
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