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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2018 - 16:14 Reply with quote Back to top

This is relevant to OP, if you ask me. Time is very different in BB from the way it presents itself in Chess and Magic. BB has a set number of turns, Chess and Magic do not.

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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 01:40 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
This is relevant to OP, if you ask me.


I don't.

JackassRampant wrote:
BB has a set number of turns


Sometimes, the ref adds or removes a turn. Some games can go into overtime. If you can't field any menz for a kick-off, you lose on the spot. This last point illustrates why attrition is crucial to BB.

One could imagine a race of Bloodletters. Garion made them with no hand, so a clear pitch would be their only way to win. Not that they'd care. One could also imagine a team of 10 MA 1ST Pixies. Quite often they'd go for very quick touch downs. They might try to hurt with gang foul, but that'd be circumstancial.

Between these two extremes lie all the races. Here would be my order, from the most bash-oriented to the most ball-riented:

BASH := Khemz, Dorfs, Chorfs, Nurgz, Orcs, Chaos
HBRD := Undead, Pact, Necro, Norse, Lizzies, Menz, Zons
BALL := Vamps, Slann, Rats, DE, HE, WE, PE

H/T to Morehouse. Usual caveats apply. I was tempted to make it a blogpost or something.

Being an old MTG guy, I'm trying to think of a way to win a BB game in one turn. It's work in progress.

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Keothi



Joined: Jul 08, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 06:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Is there a good Thread with links to tactical considerations for BB?

I've read the Art of Waaarrgh or however it's spelled, the 1000 losses (name may be incorrect) and an article on blocking, chain-pushing etc. I've also seen a few youtube clips by DrDiscoStu playing FUMBBL but explaining his thought processes of why he played a certain way in the game etc

But keen to read or watch any other good resources. I've read most of the help section in FUMBBL too.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 07:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Keothi wrote:
Is there a good Thread with links to tactical considerations for BB?

I've read the Art of Waaarrgh or however it's spelled, the 1000 losses (name may be incorrect) and an article on blocking, chain-pushing etc. I've also seen a few youtube clips by DrDiscoStu playing FUMBBL but explaining his thought processes of why he played a certain way in the game etc

But keen to read or watch any other good resources. I've read most of the help section in FUMBBL too.



Unfortunately not really, so much of the game hinges on situation and making the moves and the dice validating them. I like the drdiscostu approach mostly because getting insight into the decision process can be helpful.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 08:28 Reply with quote Back to top

see also strider84's youtube analysis, i liked them
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD_UZXbSvFpjh14m5lOtbyg

but, the problem with trying to make big proclaimations about optimal strategies in BB is that, for every thing you think might be a 'rule', there's a load of exceptions. so everything has a 'it depends' on it,... so 'rules' become very hard to pin down
see for example, the original post in this thread
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 09:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Some might say that trying to force absolutes on a game based on probability is a bit trite...

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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 10:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
but, the problem with trying to make big proclaimations about optimal strategies in BB is that, for every thing you think might be a 'rule', there's a load of exceptions.

Okay, so bbowl, and german grammar have a lot in common. Makes sense. Very Happy

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 15:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Ah, now you're talking pitch clears. That's my language.

You don't win on the spot if your opponent can't field any players, Thoralf. You get one TD and the clock advances 2 turns. Just for the record. I've got dozens and dozens of pitch clears under my belt, and I've never won a game because my opponent couldn't set up any players at the start of a drive. I've gotten a couple extra scores that way, but it was all in games I would have won anyway. And it's really hard to do, because usually when you clear the pitch you KO some guys and they may come back for the next drive.

There might be some rare exception, but BB is a (roughly) 16-turn game.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 17:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Without PO clearing the pitch is way more unlikely than in CRP.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 17:51 Reply with quote Back to top

There are other formats. I've only had like 3 pitch clears since PO has been taken out, but I got two at the Warpstone Open last November (PO allowed) and I've had a few with the Denvork Bronkorks, using the new (RR) PO rules.

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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 21:41 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
You don't win on the spot if your opponent can't field any players, Thoralf. You get one TD and the clock advances 2 turns.


My mistake. I thought it was au auto-win.

JackassRampant wrote:
There might be some rare exception, but BB is a (roughly) 16-turn game.


Give or take 8-10 turns, yeah.

Doesn't really matter for the functional analysis I'm proposing, though.

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Keothi



Joined: Jul 08, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 22:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks Spookeh,

Just exposure to more lines of thinking; different ways of attacking the same problem... It all helps build a strategy toolbox. At the moment I only have a screwdriver and a hammer to solve my BB problems, with more tools in the toolbox there become more options.

I quite liked the suggestion a coach made to me of using team economics as a way of deciding how to tangle players. Using a 70 tv player (eg 1 skill line orc) to tie up a 200+ tv player. For every turn that you limit 200+ tv with 70 or less tv you have a clear advantage on the other 10 vs 10 and the other coach is not able to effectively use his valuable player most effectively. Same thing when fouling; make it an economics decision based on risk vs reward.

The thing I love about the game is the infinite variety in a game that has a known number of players on the pitch at kickoff, fairly certain number of turns and a known way to win - score more TD than your opponent. The variety in set-ups, kick placement, scatter results, kick-off table and the sheer variety of skills and races that you can face make it such a complex game where every game is different. Which is why I'll keep playing Smile
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 31, 2018 - 23:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Keothi wrote:
Thanks Spookeh,

Just exposure to more lines of thinking; different ways of attacking the same problem... It all helps build a strategy toolbox. At the moment I only have a screwdriver and a hammer to solve my BB problems, with more tools in the toolbox there become more options.

I quite liked the suggestion a coach made to me of using team economics as a way of deciding how to tangle players. Using a 70 tv player (eg 1 skill line orc) to tie up a 200+ tv player. For every turn that you limit 200+ tv with 70 or less tv you have a clear advantage on the other 10 vs 10 and the other coach is not able to effectively use his valuable player most effectively. Same thing when fouling; make it an economics decision based on risk vs reward.

The thing I love about the game is the infinite variety in a game that has a known number of players on the pitch at kickoff, fairly certain number of turns and a known way to win - score more TD than your opponent. The variety in set-ups, kick placement, scatter results, kick-off table and the sheer variety of skills and races that you can face make it such a complex game where every game is different. Which is why I'll keep playing Smile


Amen!
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