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AunoAdam



Joined: Apr 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 21:13 Reply with quote Back to top

I used to play ogres in Fumbbl a lot, until the nerf happen.

Back in the day, you could field 12 ogres, and goblins instead runts. It would take you forever to save until you get 12 ogres (I believe I never got there), and the team was fun as hell to play. Not even close to a competitive team, but at least, playable and fun.

Today, I took my old team. fired the goblins and ogres to have only 6. bought some runts... and the pain.

The team is plainly non-sense. Runts are just free ssp for the opponent, and 6 ogres are not enough to have a critic mass to be able to somewhat control the board.

So, my question is: Why did they nerfed ogres in the past?. It was already a bottom tier team, so why?.

P.D: Please, I don't want to start a debate about how well you play with ogres, and that you won a tourney once with them. That is not the point of this topic. The point is why did they nerfed one of the worse teams.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 21:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Why did you fire the ogres? Sure, they'd have been technically an "illegal" team, but nobody here complains about grandfathered teams usually... especially in this case since ogres now are basically unplayable.

You'd have been cut down to six over time anyway.


As for the why of it... Who knows, most of us have been asking the same question for years. I guess 11x ST5MB on the pitch scared some people.

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PaddyMick



Joined: Jan 03, 2012

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 22:02 Reply with quote Back to top

I like 'em how they are now, the worst team in BB. That's why I play them, 'cos they, are the underdogs. Having said that, losing Piling On has nerfed them again, and I wouldn't mind gobbos instead of snots. But 6 Ogres is enough.

As for not being competative with 12 ogres, didn't they win a major, and were't they considered a power gamers team?

Also, i'd like to go on record as saying grandfathered teams that cling onto 10+ ogres are hella lame.
juck101



Joined: Nov 16, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 22:16 Reply with quote Back to top

loads of lrb 5 changes were in line with mathc win ratios reported. Woodies for exmaple lost some catvher quality and undead got a slight nerf. I dont recall any nerf to ogres but 12 bg guys does seam a bit overkill. Probably no reason to leave them so many really.

Something forgotten was the only testing was tabletop. So as you say it took a while, any ogres would of played with less options and I doubt got to see 2k rating really. So probably jjust more games might of changed
Kryten



Joined: Sep 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 22:33
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12 was too many ogres, but 6 is too few. IMO they should have gone with 8 ogres and it would have been fine.
Naama



Joined: Jun 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 22:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I dunno... Ogres weren't a good team before the nerf, maybe slightly below average. Not only did they lose half their Ogre roster, snotlings got replaced with runts(right? RIGHT??? Or am i remembering this wrong?). If woodies got hit with a nerf bat, then Ogres got ran over by a couple hundred trains.

It's not the only weird design choice to happen, Khemri got blasted pretty hard as well, not to mention some skill changes that probably got cooked up in a meth lab.

Though if the goal was to make Ogres into a 100% joke team, then they succeeded Very Happy I salute Paddymick for being able to play with them to the extent that he does Smile
Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 22:52 Reply with quote Back to top

They are horrible... but horribly fun.

I played in a tabletop tourney that allowed me to eventually have eight ogres (6 rostered + Brick Farth and Bertha). Most I had go dumb in one turn was four, but I was prepared for eight Wink

Mihn'ee'SOH'tah Gohldun Gogres


Last edited by Jeffro on Feb 01, 2018 - 22:54; edited 1 time in total
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 22:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Probably there was 1 or 2 folks in the BBRC that had received some poundings from Ogres, perhaps when someone was lucky with bonehead rolls, and there was no one talking of Ogres flaws. They start blathering about too many s5 and then say oh why not lets reduce the number and then give them some cheap s1 snotlings to make them a really unique team... Then combined with the problems they already had with lack of general skills on normals and bonehead it really wrecked them.
I still get the odd win and have fun with them but the win usually needs some significant luck or an opponent screwing up. Honestly GW could have easily tweaked them a bit last year.

Losing PO was a blow but on the hand my team used to suffer immensely against clawpomb Cwarfs and was always bankrupt and short on ogres.

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lawofthewest



Joined: Nov 09, 2017

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 23:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe my 2 cents: here is the mother of all Ogre games, and my 20k Ogre team won vs a 2020k team. I had more than 6 Ogres on the field due to mercenaries/star players... https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3960618

why they were nerfed is a mystery to me... which buff would you prefer?
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 23:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I speculate they rule designers just hated the fact that the ogre team was forced upon them by GW to sell ogre models. They broke the team on purpose to get even.

Otherwise, maybe it had something to do with the price of ogre jumping to 140k and with spirally expenses and better str skills (jugs reducing turnovers, piling on being awesomer with nerf'd foul) having a limit of 6 looked good on paper...especially since the old ogre team made playing goblins redundant.

But overall, my gut says the rule makers (BBRC?) have always had contempt for inventing big guys. That's why their prices keep going up and up with skills and power levels going down down. they want you to win on strategy, not point click destroy.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 23:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
I speculate they rule designers just hated the fact that the ogre team was forced upon them by GW to sell ogre models. They broke the team on purpose to get even.

Otherwise, maybe it had something to do with the price of ogre jumping to 140k and with spirally expenses and better str skills (jugs reducing turnovers, piling on being awesomer with nerf'd foul) having a limit of 6 looked good on paper...especially since the old ogre team made playing goblins redundant.

But overall, my gut says the rule makers (BBRC?) have always had contempt for inventing big guys. That's why their prices keep going up and up with skills and power levels going down down. they want you to win on strategy, not point click destroy.


Perhaps but I think if there's one obvious overriding fact, it's that the BBRC simply didn't know how their game played within the parameters of PC enabled BB.

How could they know that CPOMB would play out the way it did over the course of 100+ games? As one of a few examples.

Edit: AD informs me they did know and it was working as intended. I just assumed incompetence instead of malice.
DarthPhysicist



Joined: Jun 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Feb 01, 2018 - 23:47 Reply with quote Back to top

because snots are the secret power of the ogre team... shhhh... snotz be mean

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AunoAdam



Joined: Apr 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Feb 02, 2018 - 00:56 Reply with quote Back to top

So, when they nerfed the team, a rationale was not given?.

I hope GW buff them in a future Death Zone.
gpope



Joined: Jun 04, 2010

Post   Posted: Feb 02, 2018 - 01:24 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Perhaps but I think if there's one obvious overriding fact, it's that the BBRC simply didn't know how their game played within the parameters of PC enabled BB.

How could they know that CPOMB would play out the way it did over the course of 100+ games? As one of a few examples.


The difference between perpetual online leagues and in-person tournaments probably had a lot to do with the change. At 1000tv the change is neutral at best and may even be a slight buff in some respects, since it's not like you were going to be buying 7 ogres on a rookie team anyhow. The discount on runts helps get new teams off the ground a little bit faster, and the runts can hold their own well enough against unskilled rookies. Giving up 3dbs isn't so bad when the opponent is fishing for pows due to lack of Block/Tackle, and Sidestep+Titchy makes them really annoying to deal with. Buuuut they pretty quickly hit a wall because snots get worse and worse and worse relative to developed players and they can't keep buying ogres to compensate.
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