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Strider84



Joined: Jun 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 21, 2018 - 17:12 Reply with quote Back to top

With the RTTNAFC going into playoffs, the next Online NAF event is already around the corner. We're pushing the team building to a new limit with the "all teams viable" ruleset for the

Danish Open Online 2018


  • DOO 2018 is coupled with the Danish Open 2018 taking place on June 2nd / 3rd in Copenhagen, Denmark
  • Winner will get a ticket to the Danish Open 2018 or for a later year
  • All teams viable Ruleset with 6 tiers
  • There are 5 rounds of Swiss in groups of around 30, top 4 qualify for the playoff
  • Round 1 will start at 22:00 CET (Fumbbl BB-Time) on Monday, 23.4.18
  • Create your team here and apply it to the Online NAF group


All details are available in the DOO 2018 Rulespack or on the Online NAF group Page
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 11:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Can you strike gold and identify the most powerful roster and bring your opponents to their knees? Or maybe you just want to try out some tournament rules aimed at balancing most of the races?

Any feed back before or after the tournament is most welcome. Smile
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 18:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Well to be honest I usually drop a team into these NAF events, but this one seems massively complex.

6 tiers, doubles and multiples allowed, extra cash for some. Having a brief glance I realised that I could make a human team with far more guard than a Dwarf one. That stars are ruled out for top tiers but in for lower tiers. That things like chaos start to look very competitive and....


...it all just looked too much like hard work.

Add to that a swiss format meaning likely 4 pointless games, and it's just not that attractive a package.

_________________
Barbarus hic ego sum quia non intelligor ulli
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 18:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Would you prefer knock out to Swiss? Or is your point something else?

Do you consider the humans to be (significantly) stronger than the dwarfs?
I would say they both have the option of 7 guards and that is great but comes at an exspence on both teams.

I can see that the rules are more complex than usual and I have a strong hope that we can simplify the special skills rule before next time but that is a long story. Smile

Having looked at quite a few rosters by now I am pretty confident you can just make a team with a race you consider fun to play and be competitive. If that is not enough for you I hope we meet another time and thank you for the feed back.
Also note that the top tier is just plain 6 normal skills and everything else should be at equal strength. If you think something is far off please let us know. Smile
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 21:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally I like swiss and KO. But with more complexity on selection issues i feel more people might end up with a crappy team and less incentive to play in swiss.

I was mainly just trying to offer some feedback as to how it came over to me.

I have no idea whether anything is over or undervalued. maybe that's the barrier, it feels like a ruleset for the expert TT player, especially with each race having 4 or 5 sub options for building. Also I can't work out if players are allowed a second skill if their first skill is an S skill. But thats probably just me.

But...
Quote:
Having looked at quite a few rosters by now I am pretty confident you can just make a team with a race you consider fun to play and be competitive.


seems a good lead. I might just try that, throw in something and see what happens.

I wasnt trying to be difficult, just explaining that for me this one was a bit bewildering and that's why i hadn't entered yet.

_________________
Barbarus hic ego sum quia non intelligor ulli
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks again. And I knew I should have put the “thank you for the feed back” right at the top. Smile

Only loners are allowed a 2nd skill with a strength skill. Both skills most be strength skills.

Other players may pick a 2nd skill together with a general, agility or passing skill.

The 2nd skill is always a normal skill and always costs a special. The first skill is a normal or special (any table) depending on the players talents.

Hope this helps
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:26 Reply with quote Back to top

If you like a challenge the unrepresented teams so far are lizardmen, renegades, khorne, slann, vampire, halflings and Ogres. Smile
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the options are great. if every tourney will be like that, then learning this ruleset is well worth the effort. If there will be more and more iteration and relearning is needed, then people may be less invested going forward.
Based on the looks of it the complexity is on the high side, and would have probably preferred a slightly less balance as a trade off for less complexity.

P.S. If anyone is interested, and consider a change, i am happy to be involved in development for next such event.

_________________
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'Best thing on FUMBBL'(Seventyone),
'AWESOME'(Kummo), 'Last league i would leave'(SpecialOne), 'Far far the BEST thing i played online'(Grunth)
LarsEnvengger



Joined: Aug 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I would have ran a team here, unfortunately, I want to play Underworld Denizens. I choose Underworld Denizens (btw there are Underworld and Underworld Denizens in the team choice). I ran a 11 players teams, since I'd like to hire star players later. The rule seems to be you can't have special skill AND star players. So i decided to go for 7/2 +60 kpo.

The website asked me then for 10 skills, i I have to choose 10 skills, double included.

Since it would has been my first NAF online tournament here, I wonder what I could do here...
Strider84



Joined: Jun 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:34 Reply with quote Back to top

bghandras wrote:

Based on the looks of it the complexity is on the high side, and would have probably preferred a slightly less balance as a trade off for less complexity.


We tried more or less this for the World Cup rules. I guess they are though a bit more on the less complexity side due to having a lot of not so used players participating.
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:37 Reply with quote Back to top

LarsEnvengger wrote:
I would have ran a team here, unfortunately, I want to play Underworld Denizens. I choose Underworld Denizens (btw there are Underworld and Underworld Denizens in the team choice). I ran a 11 players teams, since I'd like to hire star players later. The rule seems to be you can't have special skill AND star players. So i decided to go for 7/2 +60 kpo.

The website asked me then for 10 skills, i I have to choose 10 skills, double included.

Since it would has been my first NAF online tournament here, I wonder what I could do here...


You can still get in.

Star players are hired as inducements so just save cash and make a note in the team bio.

with stars you get 9 skills (normals) and you should pick two dummy skills, like dodge on a goblin.

Hope this helps?
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Also use the underworld denzies. Smile
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Strider84 wrote:
bghandras wrote:

Based on the looks of it the complexity is on the high side, and would have probably preferred a slightly less balance as a trade off for less complexity.


We tried more or less this for the World Cup rules. I guess they are though a bit more on the less complexity side due to having a lot of not so used players participating.

I think there is a lot of room for simplification in a way that it leaves room for different builds. Let me take an example, what i would explore:
1. Getting tiers with 6,7,8,9, etc skills.
2. Allow the roster to buy an extra skill for a fixed TW amount (most likely 40k), or sell a skill for the same amount.
3. Allow teams to convert a single normal skill to a special skill for a fixed cost (most likely 20k).

I think the message would be much more simple, so much less complexity, but the strategic depth is almost as deep as now.

_________________
Image
'Best thing on FUMBBL'(Seventyone),
'AWESOME'(Kummo), 'Last league i would leave'(SpecialOne), 'Far far the BEST thing i played online'(Grunth)
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:48 Reply with quote Back to top

bghandras wrote:
I think the options are great. if every tourney will be like that, then learning this ruleset is well worth the effort. If there will be more and more iteration and relearning is needed, then people may be less invested going forward.
Based on the looks of it the complexity is on the high side, and would have probably preferred a slightly less balance as a trade off for less complexity.

P.S. If anyone is interested, and consider a change, i am happy to be involved in development for next such event.


This Rules set is the last iteration made on yearly basis I think 5-6 times now with the same aim. There has been some significant changes this time and personally I think slowing down and making things a little bit simpler would be good at this point. Not least because this rules set have already been used at several tournaments that I know of internationally - even before the first Danish event with the rules.

I am not entirely happy with the rule for special skills and I am hoping to make a very simple rules at next iteration. Smile

We are always looking for feed back so please lets talk when you have comments or questions. Smile
LarsEnvengger



Joined: Aug 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2018 - 22:57 Reply with quote Back to top

I saved my skills (hope it worked, didn't get a confirmation message), and apply this team to NAF OT Smile

I also added a note on the bio team Smile

Thansk a lot for your help, highly appreciated Smile
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