46 coaches online • Server time: 14:10
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Got a weird one - Th...goto Post Custom Ruleset apply...goto Post Crown of Sand IX Fin...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Poll
What to do with the Slann Blitzer?
No changes needed, the skill access makes up for the price.
28%
 28%  [ 39 ]
Discount Blitzer Please.
24%
 24%  [ 33 ]
Exchange diving tackle or jump up for block.
12%
 12%  [ 17 ]
Stop Complaining.
35%
 35%  [ 48 ]
Total Votes : 137


bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 08:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Weresquid wrote:
bghandras wrote:
Weresquid wrote:
Magic (at least constructed) was the comparison because you can actually do fairly well by simply copying the best decks.

Edit: of course this changes somewhat in magic at very high levels of play.

You go absolutely nowhere by simply copying a deck. Almost everybody above a decent level would have a plan against most decks, so very few matchup would be manageable without significant coach skill.

And i am absolutely talking about high level.

You would counter another players deck by reading the meta and building a solid sideboard. Neither has much to do with what you do on the table, its all about build.

Did you play MtG at high level so you have first degree evidence? Can you give me some real life high level MtG example that emphasize your point? Like you picking a netdeck just before a world championship, never playing such strategy before, then beating some top dog, and doing better than the field?
Cause i did not see that during my decade high level magic player career.

_________________
Image
'Best thing on FUMBBL'(Seventyone),
'AWESOME'(Kummo), 'Last league i would leave'(SpecialOne), 'Far far the BEST thing i played online'(Grunth)
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 08:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Can we get an online mtg tourney going? Skype it.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 13:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
To produce the evidence you want the TOP TEN Slann coaches would have to agree to switch to the different method and compare them to there own previous results.

So... get on it... convince them to do it. It's your idea.


No... no.

You're the one making the claim, so you have to prove it
You can't challenge someone to produce evidence like this, because it just actually shows you have no evidence of your own (which you don't)

Harad took the step of checking top coaches and has this as evidence to back up his dismissal of your original claim
You have nothing
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 13:52 Reply with quote Back to top

That avatar is brillantly relevant. Almost... spooky.
delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 15:12 Reply with quote Back to top

0-4 Blitzers 110,000 7 3 3 8 Diving Tackle, Jump Up, Leap, Very Long Legs GAS

If I read this link right. Why on earth would anyone complain about this player?
These are only 10K more then a human blitzer and have way more skills and Agg access. Sure Leap may not be the first skill you give an AG3 blitzer but they do have VLL.

0-16 Lineman 60,000 6 3 3 8 Leap, Very Long Legs G
Not sure if the lineman are maybe too expensive for team development, considering they have 2x lower value skills.

What might be a problem is getting the blitzers to their first skill. But Slain were always meant to be a difficult team to coach. They just need either block or wressle to make them an awesome sacker, While other blitzers would need two skills to match their leaping prowess.
Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 15:58 Reply with quote Back to top

bghandras wrote:
Weresquid wrote:
bghandras wrote:
Weresquid wrote:
Magic (at least constructed) was the comparison because you can actually do fairly well by simply copying the best decks.

Edit: of course this changes somewhat in magic at very high levels of play.

You go absolutely nowhere by simply copying a deck. Almost everybody above a decent level would have a plan against most decks, so very few matchup would be manageable without significant coach skill.

And i am absolutely talking about high level.

You would counter another players deck by reading the meta and building a solid sideboard. Neither has much to do with what you do on the table, its all about build.

Did you play MtG at high level so you have first degree evidence? Can you give me some real life high level MtG example that emphasize your point? Like you picking a netdeck just before a world championship, never playing such strategy before, then beating some top dog, and doing better than the field?
Cause i did not see that during my decade high level magic player career.

Didn’t i write that i was explicitly not talking about the very high levels of play?

Also, if we want to keep talking magic maybe start another thread?
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 17:06 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm pretty sure the Slann accidentally created the chaos rifts due to an important high level Magic the Gathering tournament on their ships that distracted them from their scientific duties.

_________________
Image
Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 17:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Someone mana screwed in a deciding match and they crashed while arguing about player skill.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 17:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:
To produce the evidence you want the TOP TEN Slann coaches would have to agree to switch to the different method and compare them to there own previous results.

So... get on it... convince them to do it. It's your idea.


No... no.

You're the one making the claim, so you have to prove it
You can't challenge someone to produce evidence like this, because it just actually shows you have no evidence of your own (which you don't)

Harad took the step of checking top coaches and has this as evidence to back up his dismissal of your original claim
You have nothing



No.
I am not a Top Ten Coach no matter what skills I choose.

To meet his ridiculous challenge of beating the results of the Top Ten Coaches we need coaches from AT LEAST the Top 30 if not the Top 10.

I have already PROVEN the results are better FOR ME when I use these team building strategies.
I DO HAVE EVIDENCE but YOU and others refuse that evidence due to your biases.

And even IF the TOP COACHES don't give my strategies an honest try (and I don't expect them to and wouldn't blame them if they chose not to).
STILL... the only way to produce MORE evidence is for more coaches to FOLLOW my team building path.

OTHERS must try it to prove it. I have already done so despite your denial.
Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 18:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Please, I am taking the time to write responses to try to help. It's great that you are engaging with proposing an alternative theory as it's a good way to move things forwards but at the same time it is absorbing some of my time so when I try to explain what you need to do to have that theory accepted please take the time to read what I write if you are to respond in such negative ways.

At no stage have I said that you need to beat the results of top 10 coaches or as you suggested elsewhere that we needed to convert them to playing the other way to prove your theory. I provided the results of these coaches to show that, at the moment, the best results are achieved by those taking dodge.

I set out two possibilities to prove your theory:
1) Someone/anyone to produce results better than top coaches with the alternative strategy. This is not a ridiculous request. I am totally open to the idea that a slann team can do quite well without dodge, it's not like you are suggesting that they all take pass block. But you are stating that it is better. For it to be better, the results have to be better than the best possible alternative.
2) In the absence of 1), demonstrate that you can do meaningfully better with a 'no dodge' and/or 'pro' approach to slann than another one which would fit with the standard theory. And in doing so win people over to it who may be able to achieve 1) (which would be the ultimate proof as it is still possible that something that works for a coach at some level of success doesn't translate to the highest levels).

You have had three slann teams in the box that I see and don't think they would really qualify for making a good contrast as two played only one game whilst the other has 11 so there isn't really enough time to see how skills influence those results.
You have two slann teams in ranked (which is obviously going to be hugely flawed as a test environment), one of those has 3 games and the other 38 so again a good contrast is not going to be achievable.

So I don't think you have proven that the results are better for you in a way that is easy for others to see. I don't think it's biases that are stopping people from seeing this evidence, as to my eyes there is not enough to satisfy even the most ardent believer. Maybe I'm missing some evidence.
gpope



Joined: Jun 04, 2010

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 19:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I like Pro and it's fun, but it's... not very good. It's good to have on a key player for do-or-die plays but relying on it on a turn to turn basis is generally not a good plan unless you have non-turnover rolls to use it on. Which is why it's mostly relegated to negatrait/gaze players. Slann blitzers can get some use out of it due to Jump Up but man, they've got the best skill access in the game and lots of high impact skills they really want.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 19:11 Reply with quote Back to top

You are not helping, as you say, because you miss about 1/2 of what I say and ignore it.

The only people helping are the ones who may have read my posts and started trying to use myy methods with Slann. I work about 80 hours a week and if I can find the time to play 50 games in a year it would be an accomplishment. If I can find 5 games in the Box during what time I have to play it is a miracle. Yet... you would only accept Box results because of your bias.

You assume that when I place my Slann on gamefinder in Ranked that I am ALWAYS offered a fair match-up or that I can cherrypick... and that is not the case. Most of the time I find ZERO offers for my Slann or offers that aren't really fair. But I take those offers anyway.
In the Box I would AT LEAST have the better team sometimes. I would at least face an opponent that falls apart vs Slann. Yet you bias thinks Box is the only place PRROF can be established.

I don't need your silly suggestions based on your experience where the BOX is infinitely available to play against the same old same old strategies. Strategies you can memorize and counter over and over again (dice willing).

I have already produced the results need to prove my strategy is effective. It is for others to take it up or not. That is their choice. Your opinion is irrelevant because YOU have never tried it MY WAY. You lack evidence but will not be satisfied with any but your own experience. That is a FACT. You will not accept this otherwise. So TRY IT for 25 games or just shut up. Stop acting like your mind is even open top the possibility when you won't test it yourself.

I will continue to play out a winning strategy and I will continue to develop others for other rosters when I get the RARE chance to play at all.
Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 19:28 Reply with quote Back to top

That has really saddened my day.
cdassak



Joined: Oct 23, 2013

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 19:55 Reply with quote Back to top

TRY HIS WAY (for at least 25 games) and you will be happy again...

_________________
Image
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: May 20, 2018 - 20:35 Reply with quote Back to top

FACT
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 1.2 © 2003 PNphpBB Group
Credits