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Poll
Stand Firm or Side Step on a Diving tackle Player?
Stand Firm
35%
 35%  [ 5 ]
Side Step
64%
 64%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 14


JmBeers



Joined: Aug 13, 2012

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 08:56 Reply with quote Back to top

So I am at the point with my vamps and slann that I need to start taking either stand firm or side step. The players in question will all have diving tackle on them. I can't decide which skill to take on a few of my players. The ones with leap I can see sf because they can leap into a cage and actually stay next to the ball instead of the opp just filling the gaps and getting his push. On the other hand ss seems to have more typical usefulness. So what is the better way to go here?
WizardX11



Joined: Mar 13, 2018

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 09:02 Reply with quote Back to top

I think you should have one firm and step on each team
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 09:25 Reply with quote Back to top

The most accurate answer: it depends. (And by the way this can be absolutely useless answer unless clarification follows, or you think and map the situational plays.)

SideStep forces you to a new position. Which, depending on the situation could allow you to improve the position of your player, or put him out of position. Generally, sidestep seems to work better for safety type players (assisting on surfs, and covering sideline, and space in general), and also against worse coaches who did not master the 'how to push away sidesteppers', while standfirm usally works better for hardcore markers, and guard players in the middle of a scrum. (And against better coaches who know how to play around sidestep.)

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 09:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I think one blitzer at least with SF is desirable - in an ideal world this guy also gets +AG so you have a 2+ leap to assist and mark the carrier, but ignoring that, it's simply very easy to manipulate getting SS off of your ballcarrier in most situations.

But in general play SS has much more varied use and allows greater freedom of play than SF.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 09:57 Reply with quote Back to top

old SF wins this debate

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 10:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh and I'm not sure of your vamps stats, but for ma6 players SS really does become tempting just to have that "free movement" when hit. It's a little bit different with St4 too, since while shifting a SS usually means filling some gaps around him, if you mark up with multiple vamps who are blodgestep/DT, simply trying to move 2-3 ST4 blodgesteppers away can leave your opponent unable to do much else that turn.

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 11:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I use stand firm blitzfrogs and sidestep vamps.

The difference for me, is Vamps are always in mass contact with the gazes, often well off the ball, and sidestep just protects them after the fact, helps them get clear for next turn. Where frogs you aim to put that right on the ball at a key point in the drive, and there provide maximum disruption in the service of the team, or sometimes a last frog saving the day.

But then, my non-stat blitzfrogs are 31 and done, blodgefirm until death, maybe reach Guard if they get lucky. Vamps I want to keep alive through to legend, and that needs sidestep the way I play 'em.

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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 12:39 Reply with quote Back to top

@tussock - makes perfect sense. Use SF in close quarter, and SS in the open field.

I think SF can also serve as protection, especially if the player has MightyBlow, as the opponent prefers not to be screwed in case of no pow blitz result. So i think a normal hitter with SF gets less hits than one without SF.

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Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 14:50 Reply with quote Back to top

My rule of thumb on this.

AV7 or AV8 = SS AV9 = SF

ST2 or ST3 = SS ST4 = SF

AG4 = SS AG3 = ? AG2 = SF

There are some exceptions I am not going to get into right now. And ofc Vampires break the mold.
But this chart works good as a general rule.

As for the specifics for each team. I would go SS.
Unless... you can explain a good reason to go with SF. Maybe you have a plan I have not considered.
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 15:42 Reply with quote Back to top

You need both. And a pie option.

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 16:16 Reply with quote Back to top

SF en masse with MB and Guard and AV9 is awesome fun.

SF is more likely to be countered in a league, neither is likely to be countered in open play.

SS is easier for your opponent to game around, but SF gets you killed if you don't have good protection.

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Nightbird



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 16:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Nothing is specified here so...in general there's more value in taking SS IMO.

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gpope



Joined: Jun 04, 2010

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 16:47 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
I think one blitzer at least with SF is desirable - in an ideal world this guy also gets +AG so you have a 2+ leap to assist and mark the carrier, but ignoring that, it's simply very easy to manipulate getting SS off of your ballcarrier in most situations.

But in general play SS has much more varied use and allows greater freedom of play than SF.


This is kind of my thought. SS is better in general usage but SF is stronger for specialized uses, so having a lot of SS and one SF is a strong option if they cost the same. I'd probably still stick with SS for vamps, though. A skilled up vamp is too capable to resign to roadblock duty.
JmBeers



Joined: Aug 13, 2012

Post   Posted: May 26, 2018 - 17:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for all the advice guys.

The way I have built my vamps I will probably only have one dedicated marker/safty so sf?
The Blitz frogs can be more varied so two ss and one sf and one hunter?

That is what I'm leaning toward based on some of the advice up here, (two of my vamps will have ag5 leap so ss is not as necessary on that team to break my players lose)
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