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Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 14:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi all

DOO is getting close to the final match, one semi final is still pending.

Thanks for playing.

I would love to hear your feed back. Specially on the balance. Are any teams too good or too weak.

Known issues:
1) The special skills rules should be made simpler
2) Stunties are not at 50% and might need a significant boost.

Other than that I'll keep my prejudice to myself for now and hope to hear what you guys think?

bloodbowl.dk/onewebmedia/ATV2018-final.pdf
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 15:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Nurgle, Khemri, Humans might be on the too powerful side.

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Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 19:34 Reply with quote Back to top

bghandras wrote:
Nurgle, Khemri, Humans might be on the too powerful side.


Human really hit the flor hard with some elite coaches at the wheels this weekend. Probably due to a very heavy meta. But 10/48 teams was human and I know Purplechest is ready for the final so I get that they are capable.
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 20:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, i guess the Nurgle/Khemri rosters tried to prey on the humans, which can be a level of strategic anticipation. But if you take those away, Humans are again strong. This is the very reason i listed all 3 rosters: Nurgle, Khemri, Humans.

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Gartch



Joined: Sep 07, 2012

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 20:50 Reply with quote Back to top

My very subjective opinion:
I think Dark Elves are not tier 0 but tier 1

But I must say it's my favorite roster, so I think my opinion can be skewed Embarassed Laughing
Although only 3 DE teams in the tournament, and it seems no table top top coaches with DE (Kfoged, PeteW, etc...) choosed them so I was wondering if like me they thought with this ruleset DE are too weak Wink

I think DE are good but I have hard time considering them as good as WE, Undead or Lizardmen at low TV Confused

If you look at the eurobowl: almost every national team has one WE team, one Undead team and one lizardmen. For DE a lot of teams, even top teams don't play with DE, so for me it's another tier.

EDIT: actually this last sentence is wrong Embarassed see below


Last edited by Gartch on Jun 04, 2018 - 23:39; edited 1 time in total
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 20:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Gartch wrote:
My very subjective opinion:
I think Dark Elves are not tier 0 but tier 1

But I must say it's my favorite roster, so I think my opinion can be skewed Embarassed Laughing
Although only 3 DE teams in the tournament, and it seems no table top top coaches with DE (Kfoged, PeteW, etc...) choosed them so I was wondering if like me they thought with this ruleset DE are too weak Wink

I think DE are good but I have hard time considering them as good as WE at low TV Confused


Thank you for your feed back. I am pretty confident that Kfoged would consider them just slightly weaker than WEs - in general aswell as in ATV - and I personally have the impression (after the weekends impressions) that DEs might be the very best team in ATV. Straume, another very capable DE coach, also seems to believe they would have been the right choice - he was one of the Humans who got beat in the meta game. Smile
Strider84



Joined: Jun 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 21:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Gartch wrote:

If you look at the eurobowl: almost every national team has one WE team, one Undead team and one lizardmen. For DE a lot of teams, even top teams don't play with DE, so for me it's another tier.


Not sure what you're looking at, last Eurobowl, every single team except Spain had Dark elves. and their Khemri got a 0 4 2 so probably a bad choice. Lizards are fine but they get that one evil matchup which dark elves never really get.

Also, I don't think Humans are suddenly too good. Can they compete for the win? Yes, on a good coach on a good day as any good team. but there were also some coaches that did not make that crucial 3+ dodge when they need it or boneheaded at the worst times, which will still happen if they get 2 more skills.

Also with Khemri, the opponent gets a bit a lucky score in his turn 6 and suddenly you're only playing for the tie.

from my point of view it's pretty well balanced except of course halflings and Gobos really need star players.
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 22:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Gartch wrote:
If you look at the eurobowl: almost every national team has one WE team, one Undead team and one lizardmen. For DE a lot of teams, even top teams don't play with DE, so for me it's another tier.


I think you must have missed something here. I am pretty sure all the top Eurobowl teams have had DEs on their teams for a long time?

How strong would you guys consider WEs to be in ATV? Are they still the top team? Would it be reasonable to nerf them even more?
Gartch



Joined: Sep 07, 2012

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 23:16 Reply with quote Back to top

@Strider and Tripleskull:

ok then I'm wrong about DE not present in Eurobowl teams, sorry it's what I understood, but I was wrong
Strider84



Joined: Jun 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 04, 2018 - 23:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Tripleskull wrote:
Gartch wrote:
If you look at the eurobowl: almost every national team has one WE team, one Undead team and one lizardmen. For DE a lot of teams, even top teams don't play with DE, so for me it's another tier.


I think you must have missed something here. I am pretty sure all the top Eurobowl teams have had DEs on their teams for a long time?

How strong would you guys consider WEs to be in ATV? Are they still the top team? Would it be reasonable to nerf them even more?


Given there is a boost to Norse and Humans which I see as counters to woodies I think it's fine. also with lots of teams being able to stack MB and tackle that can get nasty for woodies
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 05, 2018 - 21:30
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I wouldn't take too much from my teams progress as it's been very luck based. I still feel I am finding my feet in the resurrection format and would take very different skill choices next time (including a tackle/mb) or possibly evena different race.

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straume



Joined: Dec 01, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 06, 2018 - 09:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Gartch wrote:
My very subjective opinion:
I think Dark Elves are not tier 0 but tier 1

But I must say it's my favorite roster, so I think my opinion can be skewed Embarassed Laughing


I think you get the important part here. It is very easy to see the failings of the team you play, so that would give you a fair bit of selection bias.

Assuming normalish TV1100+skill package rules:

What makes DEs so strong is they don`t really have a bad match up against anything(arguably Dwarves, but as long as the AV holds up okayish, not even them).

Now WEs is just a quite different team that has, unlike any other team, some powerful get-out-of-jail options when things go badly. (=Players die quickly and the match goes to shits? Leap, strip, scoop, score, win)

As for ATV in particular I think the meta is quite interesting. I misjudged the numer of ST-teams (Nurgle, Khemri, Chaos) assuming their tendency towards getting too many draws would make them less appealing.

Considering MB+Tackle is evailable to many teams I don`t think nerfing WEs more would be the right move.

I generally think that anyone that wants to win a tournament should bring a team that is a decent counter to WEs. Some of them are always up there on the top tables.
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 06, 2018 - 19:52 Reply with quote Back to top

PurpleChest wrote:
I wouldn't take too much from my teams progress as it's been very luck based. I still feel I am finding my feet in the resurrection format and would take very different skill choices next time (including a tackle/mb) or possibly evena different race.


You will get your chance again I am sure.

And I consider the perception of good players to be just about as valuable as actual results so I'll be looking to see what adjustments you will want to make. Smile
Gartch



Joined: Sep 07, 2012

Post   Posted: Jun 06, 2018 - 20:18 Reply with quote Back to top

straume wrote:
I think you get the important part here. It is very easy to see the failings of the team you play, so that would give you a fair bit of selection bias.

I agree and that's why I wrote in my post that it was my favorite roster Wink
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