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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 12, 2018 - 17:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Yah, I'm only a "conservative" coach in that I play the outcome religiously, and that I have found that a more "passive" style can be used to inflict a world of pain without sacrificing positioning (and yes, the coaches who beat me more often are the ones who can live with a world of pain and still play their game). I'm definitely not Malmir; I see the similarity, in that I'm easier to compare stylistically to Malmir than to, say, a more risk/reward-oriented coach, but the contrasts are pretty stark. And to be honest, my style is less optimal, and that's okay, because it's my way of having fun. But it's still the best (in W% terms) game I can play, given the way I see the pitch, every time.

Can I help it if the voices in my head usually tell me about the more violent among the optimal paths forward, rather than maybe the one I'd take if I saw it? If I see a more effective route that's maybe less aggro, I'll take that happily. Happens sometimes. Hell, if you look at the stats, it should be happening more, because my W% has been climing readily (if you take out builder games) over the years while my Cas inflicted rate went up at first, but hasn't really changed much (up slightly, with a little dip when they took out PO) in the last several hundred games. But "didn't see a better alternative" is, in my head, the only excuse for suboptimal play. And as a coach you're s'posed to work on that.

But back to the main question. How can we still play, play hard, and play to win, and make the environment a good one for new coaches? All of those are prerequisites for success.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.


Last edited by JackassRampant on Jul 12, 2018 - 18:26; edited 1 time in total
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 12, 2018 - 18:25 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Can I help it if the voices in my head usually tell me about the more violent among the optimal paths forward, rather than maybe the one I'd take if I saw it? If I see a more effective route that's maybe less aggro, I'll take that happily. Happens sometimes.


Good. I think we agree on the fact that thinking twice about one's moves change them, and that bringing one's A game is all about thinking twice.

I suppose you'd then need to bring your A game against noobs and let your voice take over you when playing against our mutual enemies in the NBFL!

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There is always Sneaky Git.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 12, 2018 - 18:32 Reply with quote Back to top

The noobs still lose, and that's not likely to change so long as they remain noobs. Is a 5-0 loss really less painful than 2-0 and a pitch clear? Not that I pitch-clear noobs very often anymore (or if it looks like I could pull it off, I ask if they'd like to see me try). I mean, so far as I can remember, I've only been pitch-cleared in Stunty (and it was mutual; awesome game, can't seem to find it for link), and I've never given up 5 in a non-Builder game. But I remember my 0-4 thrashings painfully, and the times I've been crushed with Cas don't stand out to me.

Seriously, I think the key to retention is what happens OFF the pitch. And in the chat window, that too.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Jul 12, 2018 - 19:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I have some thoughts on how to keep noobs motivated:

We saw a growing box-activity due to the trophy hunt. Big part of the box-trophy is obligation to play low tier teams. That's why it was suddenly more fun, less monotone, and less lethal.

If i turn on the gamefinder and only see a chaos dwarf trying to pick on my Flings, its not very motivating.

Something similar to the box-trophy, that would motivate many coaches to bring some low tier teams, would def. help.

And then there is the CR. Yes, when i started on fumbbl, i very much avoided tough matchups, avoiding the early demotivating beatdowns... ok, call me a picker. Then i got away from picking, trying to learn from tougher matchups. Also trying out flings and goblins on ranked. Lately i went a step further, joined the box-trophy hunt and my CR just dropped. I touch my ranked flings again, CR drops even more. As long as the system takes low tier-teams losses into account just as much as other losses, it just stinks. Also the time i invested into bringing my Slann to 2500k and bringing them to any major i could, didnt help my CR nor my results - while others just spent their time building, farming and coaching their meatgrinders.

I know, CR doesnt mean much, but its there, can't turn it off, and it kind of tells me: "shtupid little coach, thats what you get for not sticking to high tier teams and farming them into oblivion!"


Last edited by MenonaLoco on Jul 12, 2018 - 19:18; edited 1 time in total
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 12, 2018 - 19:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, the Amateurs vs Grid III Challenge scares me a little. I wanna raise money for the site, I wanna get some silly games in, sure. But when I did AvG I and AvG II there were, you know, dangerous races on the list, and one by one they got crossed off. So now it's down to Elven Union and some stunties. Meaning my CR is gonna go crazy, and it's already pushing Legend territory because of a string of lemonpickers (I belong comfortably in Super Star range). Normally, I'd balance it out with a couple stupid games, or at least some Blackbox play, or something, but now that I'm having to go off my meds, I can't do that. Sad

CR formula needs a stronger racial matchup component. I think that's a totally separate issue, but it's no less true.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Jul 12, 2018 - 19:23 Reply with quote Back to top

In my case these issues are not separate: I will def. drop my Fling and Gobbo experiments after our sunday-noon ranked game and i will also stop trying to make frogs work for a while. Its not very rewarding, and the CR-drop just makes things worse.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 12, 2018 - 19:35 Reply with quote Back to top

What if there were a 145 or post-145 metagroup in Ranked? "You may play each other once apiece, cuz it's Ranked and you're allowed to engineer games so long as you don't play the same opponent twice. Then go forth and play whoever." Then the 145 teams wouldn't end up on the Isle of Misfit Teams when it's over. And if a coach decided he'd had enough of the other noobs and wanted to go get his butt kicked, he could do that, then come right back to playing the 145 circuit. With the same team, if he wanted.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 12, 2018 - 22:21 Reply with quote Back to top

What's wrong with being in Isle of Misfit Teams yer chicken? Twisted Evil

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[SL] Rookie Rumble - Always recruiting - Brand new TV1000 teams only!
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 14, 2018 - 16:45 Reply with quote Back to top

LOL. Man, I wish I could still play IoMT. I really like my team. Had to drop NCBB too (gonna have to retire my NCBB team, even, because shortened seasons in NCBB are team-killers): I'd have dropped NBFL, if I had to, but they were in the offseason when this Tourette medication issue happened, so I've got a couple months to straighten it out before I consider doing that.

Anyway. Back to the topic. I'm gonna start hitting up smart coaches and Faculty members and stuff, try to create a pool of mentors. What mentor characteristics do I need to track? Name, time zone, experience/coaching level, number of potential pupils, favorite races, stylistic notes, what else? Any volunteers to take on 1-3 pupils each? Not necessarily looking for Legends; if you feel you're naturally at least around the Star/Superstar line, if your CR hits the 160s sometimes, if you win more than you lose when you play Tier 1, you probably know the game well enough. Mostly, I'm looking for patient coaches who genuinely love the game.

Edit: Bazakastine's in. And MenonaLoco, morehouse, and Oly1987. Stimme and neilwat say they might check it out. Got a couple others thinking about this. Need coaches in Eurasia or Australia. I'll load up on Americans pretty fast.

Edit 2: Would like a European and/or Far-East/Aussie coach to help me find candidates in their zones. I know a lot of Euro and Aussie and whatnot coaches, but I'm only really well-connected in the Americas.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 14, 2018 - 19:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Emphasy wrote:
Everyone should accept every game! All the races are proud and would stand up to prove their worth... Now then, where are high tv flings for my dwarfs?


skaven aren't.

just saying.

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 14, 2018 - 20:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Got some more coaches too. Most notably Nachtogen. Wreckage himself may oversee the Euro arm, which would be a coup. Smile

Starting to load up on Americans. Let's get some Europeans and Asians/Aussies.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jul 14, 2018 - 20:06 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Got some more coaches too. Most notably Nachtogen. Wreckage himself may oversee the Euro arm, which would be a coup. Smile

Starting to load up on Americans. Let's get some Europeans and Asians/Aussies.


Wreckage should release a GLN first Wink
Ohwatch



Joined: Sep 14, 2014

Post   Posted: Jul 18, 2018 - 22:36 Reply with quote Back to top

With my good teams i don't find games but with my halfing i find always on opponent lol
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