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Poll
The Khemri Wall of China is
Awesome, they shall not pass!
11%
 11%  [ 2 ]
Are you crazy? just hit them already
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
You almost made a Khemri oneturner, you're my hero
41%
 41%  [ 7 ]
Chinese Rat pie
41%
 41%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 17


Strider84



Joined: Jun 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 01:09 Reply with quote Back to top

I just played against the Murker's skaven team with Khemri. as he has a natural oneturner with leap and I'm slow and have only one tackle, I was wondering whether I could just stop him with the great which already stopped the oneturner.

It basically forces him to either take a -2 dice on the very side to get through or one dice and then dodge through with the gutters.

My tackler i leave in the backfield in case the oneturner breaks through alone.

While almost all other teams benefit from forcing him to score early, I would almost need 3-4 turns for a reliable score with Khemri, still always risking the loss as well. so really the idea is to just keep the 1:0. also until I can really hit anything 3 turns have gone by, so "it's better to just hit him hard and make him dodge does not really work either. also if you close in the wall into contact at the end, he might be able to force a hole with a couple of one dice so that seemed not the way to go either.

at the end of the day i got a 4+ dodge with BT into a 3d on the ballcarrier, but the both down was caught by a lineman and he was able to get away with it with it.

oh, before I forget, i then almost won the game anyways as i was a 4+ 2+ 2+ with reroll away from a Khemri oneturner Smile

here the game:

https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=4001886

let's see what you think.
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 02:24 Reply with quote Back to top

tl/dr

Ahead 1-0, he made a Khemri wall the skaven were afraid to try and breach.

He wants to know if letting turns pass by, holding the wall, and waiting for the skaven to fail was a popular plan, of if he should have attacked.

Really need to see the replay to have an opinion.

Fun game. Dirty skaven tied it.

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 05:12 Reply with quote Back to top

ok so I watched the replay. Here are my thoughts:

I have sometimes used the all-mens LOS to stop a 1 turn TD. It works most effectively with multiple high St players (yay TGs) and some guard. The idea is to stop the other team getting those first few pushes without committing lots of players first, and thereby rendering their chainpush strategy more difficult. I tend to use this if I am not confident that a traditional setup would work (e.g. the 1 turner has Ag6 or something).

In this case, his 1 turner actually didn't need a single push and had the leap skill. By putting all mens LOS you made is catch roll a bit tougher which was about all you could hope for as he would have leaped over the last line of defence in a traditional setup. So thats fine.

The wall you employed in the second half had a specific weakness that was easy to overcome. The issue is you really will find it hard to entirely prevent the other team getting in behind, and once he does, you don't have the pieces in place to recover. Additionally, you slowly marched up the field while he held back several turns before this happened. This meant your opponent controlled the clock (a long drive suited him, ideally you needed him to score quickly or not at all). If instead you had MANY pieces back deep (not 1 just sweeper) while also pushing up the field and basing rats with your TGs, you might have forced your opponent to waste rerolls on dodges and/or caused him to panic and rush his drive.

In general, I believe slow teams need multiple, not just 1 sweeper and play defence more effectively using depth, not a wall strategy.

In this game, I think your anti-1 turn strategy in this case was spot on, but your second half defence was what allowed your opponent to create the draw.

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lawofthewest



Joined: Nov 09, 2017

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 08:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Beautiful game - watching it on 4x and seeing the Khemri wall adavnce - it is a classic! I will copy that tactic for my Khemri Team Smile

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fxiii



Joined: Oct 30, 2012

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 09:16 Reply with quote Back to top

nice fight, sorry for failing the last dodge Very Happy
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 11:34 Reply with quote Back to top

2nd half defense was no good. Ideally you needed StandFirm for such formation. A double column works better without 2 StandFirmers. You had exactly 1 so you could have mixed út up, double column on the non StandFirm side and wall on the StandFirm side, and use the StandFirmer at the end of the formation. Using those principles you might have been able to blitz once a turn while keeping 1 sweeper at the backend. Also, you could have marched more forward, not needing to keep 2-3 square gap, as the second line of your column could keep up with the speedsters. (You can move up 1 more square, and still the second line is where you wanted them originally.)
Not saying that is the ideal strategy, but i think that offers chance to improve on the execution.

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Strider84



Joined: Jun 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 14:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah i def need 2 stan firm for the sides at least. On the oneturner i needed the guard in the middle but aftetwards that doesnt matter anymore..
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 15:02
FUMBBL Staff
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The one turn defence I liked a lot, with that team and its 4 str5.

The defence was good until the turn you stalled and he attacked. He had to -2 die you and thats great, and as others have said, a second level that side, or a SF would have helped.

But to me it was a time to force it and get some contact while leaving 3-5 back where the gutters range took them.

That said you still got the shot and it nearly worked bar a bad bounce.

The ottd was great, I'd have timed you out though Smile

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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 15:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Hahaha that one turner attempt, reminds me of bigGuy. Very Happy Of course, there is no cosmic justice, otherwise it would have been just the thing against those Skaven with that uber-lame one-turner. Don't get me wrong, this is not a criticism of The Murker, if anything, it's a criticism of the rules pack. Well. At least there's no CPOMB any more. Skaven with CPOMB and developed natural one turner was the lamest thing ever.
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