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Jimrod



Joined: Apr 05, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2018 - 15:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Rawlf wrote:
Well props to you for taking that match at all. Playing up that much in CR and TV, am 2-2 must be seen as a victory.


Thanks, I was quite happy with the outcome, just won my next match with them too (just, was a very clumsy game, all players boxed into one corner for half of it! Smile )
Jimrod



Joined: Apr 05, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2018 - 15:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Harad wrote:
Sorry that isn't meant to be harsh, it's just we get a lot of threads like this: new person starts, new person posts saying how unlucky they are, community tries to tell them that they aren't as unlucky as they think and that there are other factors at play, person who posted original characterises the advice as 'luck has nothing to do with it'.

I imagine I probably even did something the same. So I don't mean to be negative, just try and remove yourself from the challenge to get to a place that you can see the advice for what it is.


No that's fine, I get it. As I said in the original post a lot of it is just venting frustration! Smile Probably because I play at work and can't shout out "FFS" to the other people in the office! Smile (I'm the boss so I can't get in trouble for it, just don't want the others to know! Smile )

I do give examples of where I think I've had particularly bad luck and people dismiss it, saying I need to be more tactical - fair enough but limiting a big guy to 10 turns of use because of the risk, using him later on in turns and rolling 1's on 6 of those turns for Really Stupid rolls seems pretty crap to me, then people say "Play better". Not sure I can roll the dice better, it wasn't causing turnovers, just a pain. 4 x failed Foul Presence rolls in one string of attacks in the match before also seems extreme and put me on the back foot as players were toe-to-toe, led to an injured player etc. People will say I shouldn't have been toe to toe but it's hard dodging with Chaos.

A previous poster said I was lucky in the Human vs Necro match and I agree he had some poor luck, especially towards the end when he was out of rerolls (he'd done a lot of damage early on), but that's also why I had so many rerolls on those teams in the first place! Now I know how much they affect TV I'll try to trim them back.

Again it's when I have a few of these matches in a row I tend to get very frustrated because the whole "balancing out" doesn't seem to be happening. I lost this match and didn't think I'd played particularly badly, just had awful rolls:

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^ This was on the day of the original post about luck I think, or at least in one of those strings of games I'd consider bad luck. People will say I shouldn't roll so many blocks I'm sure, but I can't do much about the opponent rolling twice as many Pow's and me rolling three times as many skulls and tons of pushbacks! Just a tough game.


I know a lot is just perception, but it's still very frustrating when the rolls are going against you and you're already the weaker team (and coach!), I'll get used to it I'm sure!
Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2018 - 15:44 Reply with quote Back to top

It is frustration, you are right, and we all feel it. But choosing isolated incidents of dice is almost always flawed. I've had games where I rolled 8 double skulls and won because my dice were actually very good, I am just able to cite some in the sequence that were not.

Sometimes the dice are too bad to do anything about but what differentiates a coach is how much they can get from the dice. As mentioned, over time we all face the same dice situations so whilst defeats may be the consequence of the dice, at each level of dice inequality there is a level of coach skill difference which can overcome it.

Once you've played a while you'll get a feel for your general CR, only then will you probably be able to tell whether, holistically you are on a good run of luck or bad as you will have an average level of performance with which to fairly compare it. And even then, your overall level is more greatly determined by your skill than your luck, it is just the variation within it that is driven by luck (assuming there is little change in long-term ability which, whilst not always true, is true for most).
Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2018 - 15:50 Reply with quote Back to top

p.s. there is a general perception from weaker coaches that their dice are worse than strong coaches. I think this is largely driven by the following dynamic: good coaches force bad coaches into more difficult situations from which the only escape is risky plays. By risky, I mean anything less than 100% certain which has to be made to win the game. The weaker coach perceives that their odds of passing this action are say, greater than 50% and so think that it 'should' work. They ignore that the better coach has forced them to make 5 or 6 of these rolls over a number of turns and so eventually they fail. The weaker coach then curses their luck.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2018 - 19:48 Reply with quote Back to top

The best advice I can give you, and something I don't think anyone else has said yet, is simple: stop looking at the dice stats.

All they are doing is confirming a perception bias because you are not looking at them as an objective observer, but an active participant who is looking for evidence/justification/an excuse/an explanation that aligns with your perception of the game.

You are focusing on block dice - I have won games 3-0 and 4-0 with worse blockdice than the ones you have screenshotted, people have won games without throwing a single block. These dice, are, in isolation, worthless as a notary of the match. Even given the full dicestats, they are not worthwhile examining without the specifics of every single block. Someone else in this thread already broke down that you basically AV/cas diced your opponent in another game, but as this is not as visible, you seem to ignore it.

As an example: you consider skull/push a bad dice result; I personally would consider that a good result if it was a 2d without block. With pushes being 2/6 on a block dice, it's invariably the case that they will predominantly feature in most dice summaries. Embrace this.


I would genuinely ignore the dice stats until you've played a great many more games and understand the nuances that the results actually require. At which point you will, like most of us, probably not even bother checking them except on very rare occasions.

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Willowforrest



Joined: Dec 10, 2010

Post   Posted: Sep 07, 2018 - 22:45 Reply with quote Back to top

in a faraway dimension, beyond time and space, there exists a nightmare plain of darkness, of infinite frozen scrub and rocks.

at the center of that infinite plain is a throne, upon which sits the god of malicious whimsy, He-who-shall-ignore-you-at-best, the spiteful one. NUFFLE. his cursed chair is whipped round by an icy howling wind: it is the souls of all those who, game-winning td on the line, gfi roll: 1, reroll: 1, armor break: yep, cas roll: dead, apo reroll: dead.
there are many souls in that icy howling wind.

before the throne, there is a bloodbowl pitch, and legend tells of a game that was played there in ages past. yea, verily, twas betwixt the 2 greatest coaches ever to play the game. the loser would spend all eternity writhing in the torments of the most evil chaos god, the winner would get bragging rights.

nuffles eyes were closed.

the game was epic and its like shall never be seen again. each coach played a perfect game. in fact, each turn was played perfectly. it can truly be said, twas the greatest match ever played, and after overtime, there was a tie. a coin was produced, the flipping of which would decide the fate of these 2 brave coaches...

nuffles eyes opened, narrow glowing slits....

long story short: one coach, (the luckier one) won the toss. the unlucky coach uttered some last, fairly lame words before being cast into the outer darkness for all eternity.

what did he say?

what would you say?

"i wish my opponent had been unlucky, instead of me."
Jimrod



Joined: Apr 05, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 08, 2018 - 00:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Mr. Green
Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 08, 2018 - 00:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Had it been a FUMBBLer he would have said pfft. Very Happy
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