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King_Ghidra



Joined: Sep 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 13:56 Reply with quote Back to top

So i think broadly speaking, if you want to play Bloodbowl you have three options: TT, FUMBBL, Cyanide. In terms of answering the OP's question as to why or why not I or others might come here, below are my immediate thoughts, with those that really make a difference on my decision to be involved in bold


Reasons to come to FUMBBL:

Best players in the world
endless leagues with loads of history
loads of tournaments and leagues

low system requirement client
in-game UI is good and responsive, games can be played relatively quickly
vaguely intelligent discussion on the forums

Discord available to hang out and chat
lots of community created content and customisation options

Reasons not to come to FUMBBL:

clunky looking old website with millions of menus
crappy Ranked gamefinder experience with pickers
No guarantee of a game via 15 min wait box draw

competitive structure is decentralised

Reasons to play Cyanide

lovely graphics and atmosphere
ladder play is a good experience now that concessions aren't rampant
ladder resets give a periodic new set of goals to aim at
matched game guaranteed with short wait
plenty of well-run big leagues
you might play a famous streamer and become an internet celebrity

Reasons not to play Cyanide

takes ages to play a game
in-game UI is clunky
need a decent pc

Reasons to play TT:

Best social experience
You get to paint and collect miniatures
Lots of good players

Reasons not to play TT:

Can't play on demand (in your pants in your bedroom at 3am)
Have to hang around with nerds
Have to travel
have to buy, paint and carry around miniatures


Of course there is a fourth option here, do none of the above, and I haven't read the whole thread but for me how I spend between half an hour to two hours of my leisure time is a significant decision and Blood Bowl isn't going to be the answer if that would mean a frustrating experience. Since the days where I used to play here a lot, that has been an increasingly big decision, and there are so many other games that allow me to enjoy time in more bite-sized chunks.

There is also a big difference between scheduled play via leagues and tournaments, and drop-in open play. For me tabletop is a night out, it's in the diary and the time is booked in as it were. Equally if I have an online tourney here I know I can book in the time and allocate a couple of hours for a scheduled game, no problem. But if I have some free time and am thinking about playing a game for fun, then the prospect of navigating gamefinder or crossing my fingers in the box scheduler is a genuinely off-putting prospect.

A final point. How do people know about and find FUMBBL? Mostly word of mouth from other players I expect. It doesn't have a marketing team. It isn't on Steam, it isn't pushed in people's faces for any reason if you're not into Blood Bowl already. Meanwhile, the other two options are now, especially as GW got interested in BB again. So no surprise if people naturally gravitate there and stay there if the experience isn't horrible.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 14:18 Reply with quote Back to top

MrCushtie wrote:
How about a league for noobs with high-TV human and orc teams, prerolled?


What have noobs ever done for us? Wink

Prerolled teams for everyone! Mr. Green

The ability to add prerolled teams for any roster.

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Last edited by koadah on Sep 20, 2018 - 14:28; edited 1 time in total
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 14:22 Reply with quote Back to top

King_Ghidra wrote:

Reasons to come to FUMBBL:

Best players in the world
endless leagues with loads of history
loads of tournaments and leagues


The problem is, Cyanide can say that too. And their leagues are bigger.

Fumbbl leagues are way, way more flexible though.
(Keep it Secret Wink )

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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 14:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Good post that, KG.

The point about word of mouth is strong. It took me a while to wear down a number of people I know, but to a lesser or greater extent, they all caved in and ended up staying a while. It genuinely baffles me that as BB soars with the re-release, FUMBBL’s decline continues (on the games / quarter graph, we appear to be at an almost record low?), but perhaps without advertisement, no one knows we’re here. Maybe we need a ‘bring a buddy’ scheme. Wink

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Wotfudboy



Joined: Feb 17, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 15:00 Reply with quote Back to top

For me, I think the eventual launch of a client that doesn't appear in a small window will lead to a massive upturn in games.
As word of mouth, forum posts and social media spreads the announcement of a new client, I can see FUMBBL picking up a lot. Fingers crossed Christer's hard work is polished and ready to roll out soon.

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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 15:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Har, thread necro...

In a perfect world, Fumbbl would be a neat modern site that runs well also on mobile devices, with a browser game style look and structure, intuitive to navigate, options only for people who want them but pregens available for those who don't, and of course, no Java required and games played directly in the browser. Custom colour schemes for teams. A large number of logos to choose from. Etc.

Then it would be able to advertise openly and use the Blood Bowl logo, without getting sued by GW.

Instead, the site remains hidden and, just like its users, is making a good effort to stay in shape, but cannot deny its age. At the same time, Cyanide seems to have learned a couple of lessons (I still haven't played it), and is getting all the buzz from the Twitchers. So, yeah, we don't look appealing at first glance, hence the "wearing down" Purplegoo quotes will have to be our marketing method of choice. Wink
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 16:32 Reply with quote Back to top

I blame Dave.

seriously.

it was all good til he got here

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Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 20:25 Reply with quote Back to top

I see a lot of really new coaches apply to the 145 (0 games for quite a few), so they are still coming to FUMBBL to try it out. Some of these coaches will apply and never log back on to FUMBBL from what I can tell, others will stick it out for a variable amount of time then disappear. The retention rate seems low, but there could be many reasons for that - I'm sure I don't need to go into it.

I agree with sonrises that new coaches struggle with the complexity of FUMBBL as a whole - there's just a lot to take in right away. Also the size of the client on newer monitors could be an issue for retaining them as well. I do believe that if they stick around long enough they'll find the right place on FUMBBL for them whether it's League/R/B

@MrCushtie: There's a Getting Started section on the Help page, but admittedly I haven't looked at it in a long time. I'll note that the pages are editable by any coach, so if there's something that could be added to help out new coaches any coach can add it in there.

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Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 22:35 Reply with quote Back to top

King_Ghidra wrote:

A final point. How do people know about and find FUMBBL? Mostly word of mouth from other players I expect. It doesn't have a marketing team. It isn't on Steam, it isn't pushed in people's faces for any reason if you're not into Blood Bowl already.

If you type in google "blood bowl" "play" and "blood bowl" "online", fumbbl has a top ranking, if you just type in "blood bowl", fumbbl has no valuable ranking. i have no clue about the search engine technics, but fumbbl should/could maybe be listed right after the appearances of games workshop, cyanide, wikipedia and steam, which effectively would grant a position on page 1.

and personally, typing from a very experienced view back in 2004, the site does not feel crowded anymore, at least not between 24 and 17bbtime. the player drop over years is incredible. in these times i see and play the same coaches regularly while back before 2009, you met new coaches in almost every game.

my opinion of the reasons are:
  • general availability good designed of free to play games
  • Specialist games / games workshop failed to generate young fans for a very long time, hence the fanbase just grew older and couldn't attract young players that much anymore
  • tabletop, board games in general lost attractivity since the era of role playing video games
  • locked resolution of the client combined with minimalist graphics
  • difficult entry for newcomers, imo the site never reached a level where its totally easy for visitors to create and play in an instant! people should visit the site for the first time, already get an insight of what a game on fumbbl looks like and be able to play their own game within 10 minutes against a real opponent (in a non-competitive format of course)


Most of my points in the list take money to improve and we all know Christer is running the site alone (expect for the client). For a one-man-show FUMBBL is a damn good thing.


Last edited by Dominik on Sep 20, 2018 - 22:48; edited 4 times in total
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 22:41 Reply with quote Back to top

As I understand it, the concept of fumbbl is to give a space to people who already play (or have played) BB, it isn't designed for and never can be (copyright etc) to work for people who have never played BB before. Looking to bring in casual passers by doesn't really work bearing that in mind. In that sense when we talk about "new" coaches it does seem reasonable to expect they can just get on and play without a BB tutorial. There are facilities for less experienced coaches to hone their skills clearly advertised.

However, I completely agree that some sort of site tutorial, how to use the interface, setup a team, all the features of the client etc would be very useful. As the population dwindles though there will surely come a time when having more than one competitive division will just hasten the decline.
Jopotzuki



Joined: Oct 07, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 22:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I still meet new coaches almost every game.

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Matthueycamo



Joined: May 16, 2014

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 23:20 Reply with quote Back to top

The decline in Fumbbl pretty much coincides with the first BB game from Cyanide. Then it stabalised before starting the current slight downward trend after the 2nd game came out. I think really it just shows how important graphics are to a lot of people and whatever else you improve the graphics will never be close to any sort of high quality. Don't get me wrong there are some great sets of icons out there espechally with custom leagues but for a lot of people the choice between those and BB2 graphics and animations obviously does it for them.

So yeah graphics and animations, FUMBBL can't win that battle so really no point in trying.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 23:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Dominik wrote:
and personally, typing from a very experienced view back in 2004, the site does not feel crowded anymore, at least not between 24 and 17bbtime. the player drop over years is incredible. in these times i see and play the same coaches regularly while back before 2009, you met new coaches in almost every game.


Thank Nuffle you're not in the US time zone ... it's a wasteland, as far as the eye can see. Seriously, there's a group of about 15 people that could be considered 'regulars' Sad

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Drrek



Joined: Jul 23, 2012

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2018 - 23:40 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
Dominik wrote:
and personally, typing from a very experienced view back in 2004, the site does not feel crowded anymore, at least not between 24 and 17bbtime. the player drop over years is incredible. in these times i see and play the same coaches regularly while back before 2009, you met new coaches in almost every game.


Thank Nuffle you're not in the US time zone ... it's a wasteland, as far as the eye can see. Seriously, there's a group of about 15 people that could be considered 'regulars' Sad


I really feel like there needs to be some changes to how box works during NA hours to allow games to actually happen. I know I'd play a lot more if I had any guarantee I could actually get a game in a night, but as it is so hard to actually get a game scheduled, I rarely even bother activating anymore. I can get a Ranked game if I try for long enough, but I'm just not that big a fan of Ranked, so I can't speak to what could be done there.
Mattius



Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Post   Posted: Sep 21, 2018 - 00:19 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd recommend people here use reddit more and recommend fumbbl in a positive way there, it's a good start.

I wont play Cyanide until they remove or update PO. It's an inferior product right now.

I'd be interested to know if Cyanide is actually growing? Does anyone have any stats on this? If they can't be bothered to update the rule set then how long can it last?

On the side of money, it'd be interesting to know how much it would cost to get things like a web app in place?
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