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Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2019 - 00:40 Reply with quote Back to top

almic85 wrote:
Hi Roto.

This popped up on my Facebook feed and I thought of this thread. https://theboneheadpodcast.podbean.com/e/the-bonehead-podcast-14-team-design-competition-and-bonehead-basics-halflings/

There’s a podcast looking for proposed BB teams based on AoS models and it looks like you have already made a few if you are interested in sharing them a bit wider.


Oh cool. So that podcast is talking about proposed BB teams based on AoS stuff?
almic85



Joined: May 25, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2019 - 01:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Yep. Minute 37 of the podcast or look them up on Facebook and they have a post on it.

I’d give you the Facebook link but I don’t know how to get it out of the Facebook app to post it.

Not sure if there are any prizes or anything but it could be a good way to get your teams some extra exposure and play testing outside of FUMBBL.

_________________
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If you're interested join the Fringe
delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2019 - 02:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Roto wrote:
delusional wrote:
Roto wrote:
Here's the currently IN WORK Daughters of Khaine roster:

0-16 Witch Aelve 70k 6347 Frenzy GA/SP
0-4 Melusai 70k 6328 Prehensile Tail, Foul Appearance GS/PA
0-4 Khinerai 60k 7247 Leap, Very Long Legs GA/PS
0-1 Medusa 150k 6439 Loner, Prehensile Tail, Foul Appearance, Hypnotic Gaze S/GAP
Reroll 70k


The pricing is very interesting on this. I would say the witch Aelve is overspec'd for a line'o. You basically have a Wood elf line person starting with Frenzy!

Then you have the Melusai who seem to be LOS fodder. Two special skills and better armor. Their a little too leet!
I would loose G access, you then have a S access character with a few interesting physical skills. It would also cause more blocking with the Frenzy lineman. thinking mv5 could be an idea here.

Medusa should have two heads (useless but fluffy), maybe mv5 or mv4 with Hypnotic gaze as HG is going to be a reasonable game changer.

The Khinerai seem a little too good but interesting. Tactically a leap with frenzy support offers opportunities. for 60k they get 2x skills and no stunty compaired to skinks... once they get dodge they will be try machines.


I guess I'll go into a bit on where some of the skills and pricing for this team came from. Because I agree that it needs some changes and I'm actually trying to figure out just how to better balance it still.

First off, I use this https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=20129 as a basis for the initial pricing for teams I'm working on. Its a good tool, but definitely not set in stone. I make tweaks here and there based on if something is a bit too good in context of the rest of the team. That said, the Daughters of Khaine are currently correctly priced with that formula, but that's one of the things I'm looking at in regards to tweaking.

You compared the Witch Aelve to the woodie lino right? I actually took the Kurnous lino for the inspiration for it. https://fumbbl.com/help:KurnousT The big difference between the Witch Aelve and the woodie lino is that they lose MA but gain a skill. The reason they have frenzy stems from the skillset of the normal Witch Elf positional. Considering that I knew that Witch Aelves needed to be the core lino of the team, I had to figure out a way to take the extremely expensive Witch Elf and make them.... Not as expensive. I looked at what made the Witch Elf so.. unique and settled on Frenzy. Once I had that, I realized that there was already a Frenzy lino in Secret League and modeled them off that. I think it works well to be honest.

The Melusai is a bit trickier. I really wanted them to act as a sort of mix between blitzer and screener for the team. Prehensile Tail comes into the picture due to inspiration from the Snakemen Secret League team. I figured that'd make them good at that role. I wanted to make sure they had both G and S access on singles to help them fill this roll and give them some variety if need be. The issue I've run into with them with the few test games I've done is that I don't think they start off that well and lack basic skills to help them get going. I had hoped that Foul Appearance would help them succeed in what I wanted their role to be, but so far, it's been largely worthless in the test games. I'm honestly thinking about taking FA away from them, giving them block, and bumping their price up 10k. I know you brought up their speed, but surprisingly in the tabletop they're actually faster than the Witch Aelves. I might take a look at that later on though.

The Khinerai are actually giving me the most trouble in figuring out how I want to balance them properly. With their wings, I thought Leap and Very Long Legs would be great ways to express that. And I still do. They're also the fastest model in the AoS army so I needed to make sure that they were faster than the rest of the team. At least by a little. That said, I had hoped that the St2 and Av7 would be deterrents and glaring weaknesses for them. Without starting dodge or stunty as you like to compare, they need a little more build up to become monstrous, but I think they will be in time. I don't like their current price, truth be told. I really really REALLY don't like the idea that a positional is cheaper than a linemen. That said, I don't think I can justify raising their prices more than 10k arbitrarily without overcosting them. Still trying to figure this one out honestly. I'm considering changing their skills to AP on singles and GS on doubles, but I'm unsure. I'd like at least some access to P on this team and Khinerai are expert archers. OTOH, I don't want them to not have G access either. We'll see how it goes.

Now the Medusa. I actually rather like her model on the tabletop and was excited to bring her to Bloodbowl. The issue I had with her is that she wasn't as... dumb or wild like a lot of other Big Guys are in the fluff. She's a cruel and cunning operator. That compounded with the fact that I really liked the idea of giving her Hypnotic Gaze to represent her fluffy gaze, made me very hesitent to give her a negatrait other than Loner. Without a Nega Trait, however, I was rather hesitent in her overall stats. I figured St4 and Ag3 would be more than enough but not too much for a fairly reliable pseudo Big Guy. I'm considering dropping her MA down to 5, but I'm still not entirely certain if it's warranted. I just haven't had enough time to really playtest her thoroughly. (Its really ironic that in the army, the Witch Aelves are the slowest troop choice around.) I actually disagree about the whole Two Heads thing simply because they really kinda don't. Other than the snake hair, but that's not really the same thing?

Lastly, I'm definately planning on dropping the Reroll price down to 60k for the time being. 70k is just too much for these guys, but I'm hesitant to take them all the way down to 50k. I figure 60k is a good compromise to go forward with.


Hmmm....

I can see you have put a lot of thought into this:

Agreed with the Lino's now. I see where you are coming from. Frenzy is negative enough that it should balance nicely.

I think the Melusai should echo the Medusa.
Which kinda works at the moment except maybe give the Medusa AG2 to match. An AG3 beast could lead to odd results.

Khinerai Are these Fast or Agile?
The fluff points to Fast, not Agile.
If so, AG3 and give them Sure feet or another +mv.
They can then still jump, but it's risky. Yet their wings help them move faster.
MV7 Ag4 leapers just seem very Uber. Mv8 Ag3 Leapers also seem dangerous and a little different.
Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2019 - 23:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I know I've posted in a blog about the art updates, but I figured I'd also post about them here. I've actually commissioned some portrait art by Gozer the Gozarian for the rosters and he's done some amazing work.

The wild Gobbapalooza:
Image

The frenzied Fanatic:
Image

The tenacious Snuffler:
Image

The unstoppable Troggoth:
Image

The malicious Loonboos:
Image

The nimble Khinerai:
Image

The brutal Melusai:
Image

The terrifying Medusa:
Image
delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Apr 09, 2019 - 01:44 Reply with quote Back to top

It would be actually cool if the Medusa could impart "take root" aka turn someone into stone in a way better then "Hypnotic gaze" implies.

I am thinking a dice roll. on a 5,6 chosen victim within Quick pass distance gets turned to stone, on a 1 a friendly player looks at the Medusa and is Frozen.

Alternatively have it as an area of effect thing. All players starting their turn within area of Medusa roll a dice. on a 1 they are turn to stone "apply rules of Take root". Medusa has to be standing for this to take effect and does not effect if Medusa started their turn Prone.

Meh this is a "fluff" idea for the team and not serious.
But I could see interesting tactical implications in such a player.
Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2019 - 05:02 Reply with quote Back to top

delusional wrote:
It would be actually cool if the Medusa could impart "take root" aka turn someone into stone in a way better then "Hypnotic gaze" implies.

I am thinking a dice roll. on a 5,6 chosen victim within Quick pass distance gets turned to stone, on a 1 a friendly player looks at the Medusa and is Frozen.

Alternatively have it as an area of effect thing. All players starting their turn within area of Medusa roll a dice. on a 1 they are turn to stone "apply rules of Take root". Medusa has to be standing for this to take effect and does not effect if Medusa started their turn Prone.

Meh this is a "fluff" idea for the team and not serious.
But I could see interesting tactical implications in such a player.


The problem with your Medusa idea, while cool, would require completely new rules to be created. Which is something I'm not going to do. Not only would it be impossible to implement on FUMBBL, it's be annoying to implement on TT.

Besides, the ability to force another player to 'take root' would be so hilariously broken. Like.. not even joking, that kind of rule would be pretty much the most powerful player in all of Blood Bowl if it could do that.
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