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gallahbrains



Joined: Jan 06, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2019 - 19:32 Reply with quote Back to top

I was disappointed that the new Games Workshop bloodbowl miniatures are so huge. They don't look right to me.

I've never played much live, but love painting and have a large collection of "vintage/retro" blood bowl models. I really like those old hand-sculpted models, but it seems they're now "obsolete" since GW decided to re-release a "scaled up" blood bowl and it seems most independent miniature manufacturers are following their lead.

I'm just curious what you guys who play a lot live think of this? Obviously you can still use the old 28mm models, but I don't like that they'd all look so small on the same pitch with a new team. I also don't like that the new ones are so big because they will take longer to paint. Sad I'm a painfully slow painter to begin with.
Lill-Leif



Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2019 - 19:37 Reply with quote Back to top

I prefer the old models. New GW ones looks clumsy, although I am not sure it is about the scale: I have a 32 mm Impact miniatures DE team that looks pretty slim compared to the bulky GW models.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2019 - 19:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally I would rather they stuck with their 3rd ed size, but I'm also fine with the new model size, they are certainly easier to paint now, and all plastic which makes things much easier as well.

As long as we have miniatures for every team and most of the stars in this edition i think its no problem at all.
The 2nd ed miniatures do look tiny now mind, but you can still use them if thats the style you like. No reason not to.

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harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2019 - 20:45 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it is all about GW taking their game back. l dont know about this boxset, however in the past there wasnt a lot of profit to be made. Some were produced at a loss. Since GW left 3rd party miniature companies took over. By increasing the size it makes them all (potentially) obsolete. You cant blame them for that really.
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2019 - 21:00 Reply with quote Back to top

My experience as a player but not a painter is that I'm seeing the new minis creep in slowly as BB2016 coaches join the scene in increasing numbers, but 28 mm teams still outnumber 32 mm by some distance. It isn't really an issue when the two sizes play against each other; the differential isn't so stark that it's off-putting. Best to use a new sized pitch in such instances if space allows, however, because the pile-up of the bigger minis on the smaller squares can get a bit tedious.

The size is far less annoying than the practicalities of the new bits. There is no accounting for taste, but I find the BB2016 stuff to be pretty hit and miss from an in-game usability standpoint. The new Orc team, for instance, contains what appears to be interchangeable minis. A Black Orc could well be a Lino when you're looking at the pitch (or vice versa), which is no good when you're trying to concentrate. I assume the Skaven tails break at the merest gust of wind. I have the Bright Crusaders neoprene pitch, and it might be the best one I have. The Dark Elf one, in contrast, is beautiful but a huge quantity of the squares are lost in the design. Half of the dice are illegible and the other half, while better, are tough to read at a glance in the heat of battle.

Anyway, where was I?! The new size isn't an issue vs the old or at all, really. And some of it (Undead, Nurgle, Goblin weapons, Zug) is really pretty awesome, so worth getting hold of! Even with a few gripes, it's great to have so much new stuff.
Lill-Leif



Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2019 - 21:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
A Black Orc could well be a Lino when you're looking at the pitch (or vice versa), which is no good when you're trying to concentrate
.

Thank God I am not the only one having problems to distinguish the different positionals. I usually spend most part of the games against orc temas nowadays asking questions like "That is a lineman, yes?"
gallahbrains



Joined: Jan 06, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2019 - 22:23 Reply with quote Back to top

harvestmouse wrote:
I think it is all about GW taking their game back. l dont know about this boxset, however in the past there wasnt a lot of profit to be made. Some were produced at a loss. Since GW left 3rd party miniature companies took over. By increasing the size it makes them all (potentially) obsolete. You cant blame them for that really.


I thought about that too, but I don't think that's correct. Two reasons why: first, everyone else can just make bigger miniatures. Second, because apparently all their miniatures are getting bigger across their whole line. It's not specific to BloodBowl.

I suspect that it's a company-wide strategy because they think they'll be able to get more/new people interested if the miniatures are "bigger and easier to paint" or something. FWIW "bigger" definitely doesn't mean "easier to paint" anyway (especially with all that tiny detail they cram into them now).The skill in miniature painting is not a "steady hand" or "being able to see really well". lol. Laughing

In any case, it's very annoying.

I would have gladly purchased the newest version of the game from GW, but the fact alone at all the miniatures are gigantic compared to the industry standard & old versions is so off putting I don't want to.
gallahbrains



Joined: Jan 06, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2019 - 09:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Purplegoo wrote:
My experience as a player but not a painter is that I'm seeing the new minis creep in slowly as BB2016 coaches join the scene in increasing numbers, but 28 mm teams still outnumber 32 mm by some distance. It isn't really an issue when the two sizes play against each other; the differential isn't so stark that it's off-putting. Best to use a new sized pitch in such instances if space allows, however, because the pile-up of the bigger minis on the smaller squares can get a bit tedious.

The size is far less annoying than the practicalities of the new bits. There is no accounting for taste, but I find the BB2016 stuff to be pretty hit and miss from an in-game usability standpoint. The new Orc team, for instance, contains what appears to be interchangeable minis. A Black Orc could well be a Lino when you're looking at the pitch (or vice versa), which is no good when you're trying to concentrate. I assume the Skaven tails break at the merest gust of wind. I have the Bright Crusaders neoprene pitch, and it might be the best one I have. The Dark Elf one, in contrast, is beautiful but a huge quantity of the squares are lost in the design. Half of the dice are illegible and the other half, while better, are tough to read at a glance in the heat of battle.

Anyway, where was I?! The new size isn't an issue vs the old or at all, really. And some of it (Undead, Nurgle, Goblin weapons, Zug) is really pretty awesome, so worth getting hold of! Even with a few gripes, it's great to have so much new stuff.


It's probably just nostalgia, but the old Zug is the best to me. I love that miniature! The new one does look pretty cool, but as you say there's no accounting for taste. I just find the new ones all too big, chunky and detailed.
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2019 - 11:14 Reply with quote Back to top

The old Zug is great too, I love that model as well (also Griff!). I wouldn’t really take anything I say about the aesthetics of minis too seriously, though. I really dislike most of the second ed. teams, and saying that appears tantamount to treason in most TT circles. How can you love the stupid faces on those Elf Catchers?!

All that said, practicality is always first for me. I do enjoy playing an aesthetically beautiful game of Blood Bowl (people like Spubb have painted / built me lovely teams so I can contribute!), but job one is that the stuff has to be clearly distinguishable at a quick glance. Some of the new range fails that basic test, imo. I’m sure it all sells like hot cakes regardless of practicality, mind.

(I guess I should say that this is also very true of many third party minis, GW aren’t the only culprits. Some of my worst experiences have been with third party models. But we’re talking GW here!)
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2019 - 12:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Purplegoo wrote:

...All that said, practicality is always first for me. I do enjoy playing an aesthetically beautiful game of Blood Bowl (people like Spubb have painted / built me lovely teams so I can contribute!), but job one is that the stuff has to be clearly distinguishable at a quick glance...


This ^ bring back coloured rings 2019.

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Bobs



Joined: Feb 26, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2019 - 16:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Blockers-Green
Blitzers-Red
Catchers-Yellow
Throwers-White
Lineman-Grey
and for the really nostalgic
Kickers-Purple/Blue

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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2019 - 16:16 Reply with quote Back to top

The base colour thing is all fine and you do see it, but with skill rings being the primary way to mark players (well, that and bottle caps in parts of Europe!), they’re only so useful as the rings cover the bases and colours for skills are well known so it confuses matters if you’re doing positional base colouring as well (e.g. blue = Block, ring wise). The minis themselves being clearly different is still important. Before anyone says rubber bands, my OCD hates how they look. Wink

/segue, anyway.
ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 20, 2019 - 18:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Lill-Leif wrote:
Quote:
A Black Orc could well be a Lino when you're looking at the pitch (or vice versa), which is no good when you're trying to concentrate
.

Thank God I am not the only one having problems to distinguish the different positionals. I usually spend most part of the games against orc temas nowadays asking questions like "That is a lineman, yes?"


Aren't you supposed to paint the base different colors and add highlights of that color to the model so this stuff doesn't happen? (along with, you know numbering them in the correct order)
gallahbrains



Joined: Jan 06, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 21, 2019 - 09:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Purplegoo wrote:
The old Zug is great too, I love that model as well (also Griff!). I wouldn’t really take anything I say about the aesthetics of minis too seriously, though. I really dislike most of the second ed. teams, and saying that appears tantamount to treason in most TT circles. How can you love the stupid faces on those Elf Catchers?!

All that said, practicality is always first for me. I do enjoy playing an aesthetically beautiful game of Blood Bowl (people like Spubb have painted / built me lovely teams so I can contribute!), but job one is that the stuff has to be clearly distinguishable at a quick glance. Some of the new range fails that basic test, imo. I’m sure it all sells like hot cakes regardless of practicality, mind.

(I guess I should say that this is also very true of many third party minis, GW aren’t the only culprits. Some of my worst experiences have been with third party models. But we’re talking GW here!)


I really think you should be able to paint a miniature so as you can tell it apart from the others. Black Orcs should be ... well, black. I'd also do something else to make them stand out more than just much darker skin tone. For example, paint their armour in mostly metallics and just one shoulder piece and the helmet in the team colour, while everyone else has their armour all int he team colour (or something similar).

Granted, it would be nice if the miniature designers made it easy for us, but still, it should only take a bit of imagination to make each position in a team unique.

I have painted a lot, haven't played much live, but I can't really see the need for multi-coloured rainbow bases that I can only imagine would look pretty garish.

I do like the skill-rings although I wish there was some other way to conveniently mark out skills. That also seems like it would take away from the aesthetics and maybe just be a bit overwhelming if every player had them.
Eczemabeard



Joined: Aug 25, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2019 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

gallahbrains wrote:

I really think you should be able to paint a miniature so as you can tell it apart from the others. Black Orcs should be ... well, black. I'd also do something else to make them stand out more than just much darker skin tone. For example, paint their armour in mostly metallics and just one shoulder piece and the helmet in the team colour, while everyone else has their armour all int he team colour (or something similar).


It's extremely helpful.

My TT Nurgle are nearly done and the pestigors have got their claws painted in different colours. Most of them've even already gotten nicknames from the other coaches, for instance, Mighty Blue (guess), Red Elf and Green Elf (+AG both). I have two bloater builds - annoying unbudging roadblocks and annoying killers, and for those roles I've given them different coloured boots (dark grey for the first, brown for the latter) and, within those uniforms, different glove colours to distinguish between them. Football players (footie football, not Blood Bowl for pussies) also have distinguishing features all over, like tats, unique shoes, hair styles.

Last Fri I played the local Humans coach, who's given each of his players the same red-and-blue uniform. No distinguishing features whatsoever. Granted, it looks immaculate, but... After 22 games he still doesn't recognise his players from one another, and he still has to check the player numbers on his team sheet to check which skills they have all the time (except for the ogre which I killed dead lol). After three turns he knew exactly which of my Pestigors was which and which of my Bloaters he had to avoid base contact with, and he could spot them in a nanosecond.
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