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SmallBearwithPeas



Joined: May 07, 2019

Post 5 Posted: May 20, 2019 - 10:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Greetings once again, fellow Bloodbowlians!

I come to you today, once again, with yet another question.
Granted; a question with a likely obvious answer. However such is always the benefits of hindsight!
Foul fortune, woe become these mortal limitations!

But to you, my Esteemed Chum! Lacking my ignorance, I wish to yield to your greater, much grander experience!

My question, if you choose to accept it, is as such:

A new dwarf team; the first skill up is a double roll on a blitzer, do you use it?
Or is guard or mighty blow too important?



And as a supplement, should your patience yet endure:

When, in your valued opinion, should double rolls be skipped?


Thank you and goodnight! May Nuffle be with you.
Always!
Chivite



Joined: Sep 04, 2017

Post   Posted: May 20, 2019 - 10:45 Reply with quote Back to top

it deppends really, is this for a perpetual league team? a short league?

if it is for long term you can use it and give him dodge, a mobile guard is very handy, one with blodge and stand firm even more.

I myself skip doubles on most first skills on positionals with no starting skills (black orcs, saurus, golems, bull centaurs...) as they shine with normal skills and they struggle without them, so a doubles as first skill is a double set back, it will take them longer to reach the second skill and they wont be able to use the full potential of the double, while costing more in tv for no reason.


there is exceptions to this though, necromantic werewolfs and any elf possitional, as they scream for mighty blow/ guard
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: May 20, 2019 - 12:26 Reply with quote Back to top

I see it's a team in ranked division so, agreeing with Chivite's point, you could definitely take the double towards building the team for later games. Dwarfs also start strong and are pretty tv efficient so you aren't losing much there. Finally, the player is on 10spp already so he needn't be lacking guard for long and once he has it he's really useful.
Lill-Leif



Joined: Nov 17, 2005

Post   Posted: May 20, 2019 - 13:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I have a similar concern, although not about doubles, but for +MA, especially on Dark Elves. Being rather slow compared to other elves, +MA is a blessing, especially at higher TV. However, on lower TV, it does not seem to make that much of a difference other than raising TV, and preventing me from getting useful utility (blodge, leap, etc). I cannot "do" anything with the extra movement so to say.
kummo



Joined: Mar 29, 2016

Post   Posted: May 20, 2019 - 14:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Lill-Leif wrote:
I have a similar concern, although not about doubles, but for +MA, especially on Dark Elves. Being rather slow compared to other elves, +MA is a blessing, especially at higher TV. However, on lower TV, it does not seem to make that much of a difference other than raising TV, and preventing me from getting useful utility (blodge, leap, etc). I cannot "do" anything with the extra movement so to say.


I like +ma on fastest positionals races offer or as a 5th or 6th skill on lineman.

Block, dodge, sidestep, tackle, diving tackle i find much more imporant than one extra +ma.

On blitzer or witch i might take +ma on a fresh team but i really like +stats after i have more blodge since then i have already ground i can build on - +stats kinda slow the progression down and sometimes having too much tv without actual skills can hurt. (I still usually take +stats on positionals just for long run.. but i always think other options on early team build too).
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: May 20, 2019 - 15:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Dodge would make the blitzer a good ball carrier and space player. Not too many non-dwarf teams have tackle at that stage of the game.

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Hail to Frik! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Raiders of the Lost Tomb
Antithesisoftime



Joined: Aug 20, 2014

Post   Posted: May 20, 2019 - 16:43 Reply with quote Back to top

While your TV is low, dodge is a great skill on dwarves
If you're looking for a more long term value skill, Diving Tackle, or Side Step will give the opposition nightmares when tackle becomes more common and dodge's returns are diminished. There are arguments against taking SS on a player that can take Stand Firm on a normal roll, but I personally like the versatility of the shifting assist.
SmallBearwithPeas



Joined: May 07, 2019

Post   Posted: May 24, 2019 - 05:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Chivite wrote:
myself skip doubles on most first skills on positionals with no starting skills

I should have specified. I apologise!
But that is very helpful! Use it when you can but not on players which are supposed to be blocking too often.
Without Block and Guard you only put yourself at a disadvantage.
I hope I understood that! Thank you very much.


pokrjax wrote:
the player is on 10spp already so he needn't be lacking guard for long and once he has it he's really useful.

And this! I definitely should look at this more often.
You're right! Block and guard does seem useful. And then foregoing Mighty Blow entirely in favour of Stand Firm?
Thank you!


Lill-Leif wrote:
especially on Dark Elves.

Filthy Dark Elves! For shame, I say!
Shame! SHAME!


kummo wrote:
+stats kinda slow the progression down and sometimes having too much tv without actual skills can hurt.

This is very interesting too! I hadn't considered what to do with a stat increase.
Although perhaps that's more of an Elven concern.
Who dares to dream of the one turn touchdown longbeard?


Arktoris wrote:
Dodge would make the blitzer a good ball carrier and space player. Not too many non-dwarf teams have tackle at that stage of the game.

The learning continues! I hadn't considered the relative strength of teams at the beginning.
I do admit I have trouble knowing who to score on. In the little I have played of Blood Bowl 2; I have a +Agi Block and Sure hands Hobgoblin with only a Dodge Centaur and 4spp on the other.
It's quite troubling! But I do apologise for story time. Your point about ball carrying is very appreciated.


Antithesisoftime wrote:
If you're looking for a more long term value skill, Diving Tackle, or Side Step will give the opposition nightmares when tackle becomes more common and dodge's returns are diminished.

And after all of that; you have to go and suggest other skills!
Indecision! How I curse thee!
Diving tackle especially does indeed sound entertaining! Moreover, I read on bbtactics that single instances of Dodge is easily counterable by high agility teams.
As for Side Step; I once heard Jimmy Fantastic rant about how it is nothing but a 50% TV bloat when Stand Firm is availiable. I dare not question the Master himself!

Thank you very much for your suggestions.
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: May 24, 2019 - 10:29 Reply with quote Back to top

There are lots of things you can do with sidestep, such as avoiding second blocks while staying next to the player you want to mark or placing your player prone in the most advantageous square to avoid allowing a gap. Certainly debatable whether to take it when stand firm is available but it's an interesting skill I've been having fun with recently.
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: May 24, 2019 - 10:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I like Dodge on the blitzers with a double. They have MA5 and Ag3 so they get some use out of actually dodging from time to time! Same for runners.

On Longbeards, you would take Diving Tackle on doubles.

On a Troll Slayer, you might skip in favour of Mighty Blow or Guard, although Sidestep isn't bad on them Wink

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I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 24, 2019 - 14:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd rather have a guard Blitzer than a dodge Blitzer. But I would rather have a guard blodge Blitzer than a guard mb Blitzer
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 24, 2019 - 15:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Since the team is new I would take Dodge on the Blitzer.

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Please upvote the Diving Catch bug report, thanks!
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: May 26, 2019 - 19:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I would always take dodge on a blitzer, but then I like to use them to carry the ball. Often I don't keep a runner on the team. Maximize my AV9 with no obvious targets to blitz.
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