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Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2019 - 00:40 Reply with quote Back to top

almic85 wrote:
Hi Roto.

This popped up on my Facebook feed and I thought of this thread. https://theboneheadpodcast.podbean.com/e/the-bonehead-podcast-14-team-design-competition-and-bonehead-basics-halflings/

There’s a podcast looking for proposed BB teams based on AoS models and it looks like you have already made a few if you are interested in sharing them a bit wider.


Oh cool. So that podcast is talking about proposed BB teams based on AoS stuff?
almic85



Joined: May 25, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2019 - 01:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Yep. Minute 37 of the podcast or look them up on Facebook and they have a post on it.

I’d give you the Facebook link but I don’t know how to get it out of the Facebook app to post it.

Not sure if there are any prizes or anything but it could be a good way to get your teams some extra exposure and play testing outside of FUMBBL.

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delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2019 - 02:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Roto wrote:
delusional wrote:
Roto wrote:
Here's the currently IN WORK Daughters of Khaine roster:

0-16 Witch Aelve 70k 6347 Frenzy GA/SP
0-4 Melusai 70k 6328 Prehensile Tail, Foul Appearance GS/PA
0-4 Khinerai 60k 7247 Leap, Very Long Legs GA/PS
0-1 Medusa 150k 6439 Loner, Prehensile Tail, Foul Appearance, Hypnotic Gaze S/GAP
Reroll 70k


The pricing is very interesting on this. I would say the witch Aelve is overspec'd for a line'o. You basically have a Wood elf line person starting with Frenzy!

Then you have the Melusai who seem to be LOS fodder. Two special skills and better armor. Their a little too leet!
I would loose G access, you then have a S access character with a few interesting physical skills. It would also cause more blocking with the Frenzy lineman. thinking mv5 could be an idea here.

Medusa should have two heads (useless but fluffy), maybe mv5 or mv4 with Hypnotic gaze as HG is going to be a reasonable game changer.

The Khinerai seem a little too good but interesting. Tactically a leap with frenzy support offers opportunities. for 60k they get 2x skills and no stunty compaired to skinks... once they get dodge they will be try machines.


I guess I'll go into a bit on where some of the skills and pricing for this team came from. Because I agree that it needs some changes and I'm actually trying to figure out just how to better balance it still.

First off, I use this https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=20129 as a basis for the initial pricing for teams I'm working on. Its a good tool, but definitely not set in stone. I make tweaks here and there based on if something is a bit too good in context of the rest of the team. That said, the Daughters of Khaine are currently correctly priced with that formula, but that's one of the things I'm looking at in regards to tweaking.

You compared the Witch Aelve to the woodie lino right? I actually took the Kurnous lino for the inspiration for it. https://fumbbl.com/help:KurnousT The big difference between the Witch Aelve and the woodie lino is that they lose MA but gain a skill. The reason they have frenzy stems from the skillset of the normal Witch Elf positional. Considering that I knew that Witch Aelves needed to be the core lino of the team, I had to figure out a way to take the extremely expensive Witch Elf and make them.... Not as expensive. I looked at what made the Witch Elf so.. unique and settled on Frenzy. Once I had that, I realized that there was already a Frenzy lino in Secret League and modeled them off that. I think it works well to be honest.

The Melusai is a bit trickier. I really wanted them to act as a sort of mix between blitzer and screener for the team. Prehensile Tail comes into the picture due to inspiration from the Snakemen Secret League team. I figured that'd make them good at that role. I wanted to make sure they had both G and S access on singles to help them fill this roll and give them some variety if need be. The issue I've run into with them with the few test games I've done is that I don't think they start off that well and lack basic skills to help them get going. I had hoped that Foul Appearance would help them succeed in what I wanted their role to be, but so far, it's been largely worthless in the test games. I'm honestly thinking about taking FA away from them, giving them block, and bumping their price up 10k. I know you brought up their speed, but surprisingly in the tabletop they're actually faster than the Witch Aelves. I might take a look at that later on though.

The Khinerai are actually giving me the most trouble in figuring out how I want to balance them properly. With their wings, I thought Leap and Very Long Legs would be great ways to express that. And I still do. They're also the fastest model in the AoS army so I needed to make sure that they were faster than the rest of the team. At least by a little. That said, I had hoped that the St2 and Av7 would be deterrents and glaring weaknesses for them. Without starting dodge or stunty as you like to compare, they need a little more build up to become monstrous, but I think they will be in time. I don't like their current price, truth be told. I really really REALLY don't like the idea that a positional is cheaper than a linemen. That said, I don't think I can justify raising their prices more than 10k arbitrarily without overcosting them. Still trying to figure this one out honestly. I'm considering changing their skills to AP on singles and GS on doubles, but I'm unsure. I'd like at least some access to P on this team and Khinerai are expert archers. OTOH, I don't want them to not have G access either. We'll see how it goes.

Now the Medusa. I actually rather like her model on the tabletop and was excited to bring her to Bloodbowl. The issue I had with her is that she wasn't as... dumb or wild like a lot of other Big Guys are in the fluff. She's a cruel and cunning operator. That compounded with the fact that I really liked the idea of giving her Hypnotic Gaze to represent her fluffy gaze, made me very hesitent to give her a negatrait other than Loner. Without a Nega Trait, however, I was rather hesitent in her overall stats. I figured St4 and Ag3 would be more than enough but not too much for a fairly reliable pseudo Big Guy. I'm considering dropping her MA down to 5, but I'm still not entirely certain if it's warranted. I just haven't had enough time to really playtest her thoroughly. (Its really ironic that in the army, the Witch Aelves are the slowest troop choice around.) I actually disagree about the whole Two Heads thing simply because they really kinda don't. Other than the snake hair, but that's not really the same thing?

Lastly, I'm definately planning on dropping the Reroll price down to 60k for the time being. 70k is just too much for these guys, but I'm hesitant to take them all the way down to 50k. I figure 60k is a good compromise to go forward with.


Hmmm....

I can see you have put a lot of thought into this:

Agreed with the Lino's now. I see where you are coming from. Frenzy is negative enough that it should balance nicely.

I think the Melusai should echo the Medusa.
Which kinda works at the moment except maybe give the Medusa AG2 to match. An AG3 beast could lead to odd results.

Khinerai Are these Fast or Agile?
The fluff points to Fast, not Agile.
If so, AG3 and give them Sure feet or another +mv.
They can then still jump, but it's risky. Yet their wings help them move faster.
MV7 Ag4 leapers just seem very Uber. Mv8 Ag3 Leapers also seem dangerous and a little different.
Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 08, 2019 - 23:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I know I've posted in a blog about the art updates, but I figured I'd also post about them here. I've actually commissioned some portrait art by Gozer the Gozarian for the rosters and he's done some amazing work.

The wild Gobbapalooza:
Image

The frenzied Fanatic:
Image

The tenacious Snuffler:
Image

The unstoppable Troggoth:
Image

The malicious Loonboos:
Image

The nimble Khinerai:
Image

The brutal Melusai:
Image

The terrifying Medusa:
Image

The stalwart Arkanaught:
Image

The deadly Thunderer:
Image

The fearless Skywarden:
Image


Last edited by Roto on Apr 20, 2019 - 23:01; edited 1 time in total
delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Apr 09, 2019 - 01:44 Reply with quote Back to top

It would be actually cool if the Medusa could impart "take root" aka turn someone into stone in a way better then "Hypnotic gaze" implies.

I am thinking a dice roll. on a 5,6 chosen victim within Quick pass distance gets turned to stone, on a 1 a friendly player looks at the Medusa and is Frozen.

Alternatively have it as an area of effect thing. All players starting their turn within area of Medusa roll a dice. on a 1 they are turn to stone "apply rules of Take root". Medusa has to be standing for this to take effect and does not effect if Medusa started their turn Prone.

Meh this is a "fluff" idea for the team and not serious.
But I could see interesting tactical implications in such a player.
Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 13, 2019 - 05:02 Reply with quote Back to top

delusional wrote:
It would be actually cool if the Medusa could impart "take root" aka turn someone into stone in a way better then "Hypnotic gaze" implies.

I am thinking a dice roll. on a 5,6 chosen victim within Quick pass distance gets turned to stone, on a 1 a friendly player looks at the Medusa and is Frozen.

Alternatively have it as an area of effect thing. All players starting their turn within area of Medusa roll a dice. on a 1 they are turn to stone "apply rules of Take root". Medusa has to be standing for this to take effect and does not effect if Medusa started their turn Prone.

Meh this is a "fluff" idea for the team and not serious.
But I could see interesting tactical implications in such a player.


The problem with your Medusa idea, while cool, would require completely new rules to be created. Which is something I'm not going to do. Not only would it be impossible to implement on FUMBBL, it's be annoying to implement on TT.

Besides, the ability to force another player to 'take root' would be so hilariously broken. Like.. not even joking, that kind of rule would be pretty much the most powerful player in all of Blood Bowl if it could do that.
Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2019 - 12:39 Reply with quote Back to top

It took a bit of work and more than a few revisions, but the Flesheater Court roster is now availble for play.

0-16 Crypt Ghoul 50k 6337 Dodge G/ASP
0-2 Crypt Ghast 90k 7337 Dodge, Disturbing Presence GA/SP
0-2 Abhorrent 100k 7337 Disturbing Presence, Frenzy, Pass GP/AS
0-2 Crypt Flayer 120k 7338 Disturbing Presence, Claw, Frenzy GA/SP
0-2 Crypt Horror 120k 5428 Frenzy, Disturbing Presence GS/AP
Reroll 60k

When building this team, I had about 3 main goals. 1) Needs to be recognizable to the current ghoul in the Undead and Necromantic rosters. 2) Needs to in some way represent their insanity and belief that they're actually noble knights. 3) They're also pretty damn ferocious in their cannabalistic ways. I got the number of different positionals from a flash of inspiration in trying to sort of make this roster into a Ghoulish mirror to the Human and Norse rosters. Lino, Catcher, Passer, Blitzer, Strong Guy.

I had wanted to use Disturbing Presence to represent their utter insanity. At first I thought to include it on their linos, but honestly there was no way to make it even remotely affordable so I decided to limit it to their positionals. 8 potential players with Disturbing Presence could potentially be pretty annoying to deal with, but I hope thats offset by their low AV and likelyhood to be caught in a frenzy trap.

For the Crypt Ghoul (lino), I decided to essentially copy the Amazon lino. There was already an low AV lino with starting dodge so I figured a little roster theft wasn't a bad idea. Its a bit slower than a normal Ghoul, but I figured that it's still similar enough that it's good enough to work as a lino. I was actually a bit concerned that making them a direct copy of the existing Ghoul with Ma7 would make them too good for a lino. I also only gave it G access on Singles to try to keep schenanigans to a minimum.

Now the Crypt Ghast is more like the traditional Ghoul in that it has the same stat line, but has been given Disturbing Presence. I figure it'll be a fun unit to mess around with and perform all sorts of roles from wrestle/dodge sacker, to ball carrier, to catcher.

Now, the Abhorrent in lore are among the leaders of the Flesheater Courts. To show this I knew they would need P access on singles. I figured making them a sort of Ghoulish Passer would be a good way to show this. I also decided to give them frenzy to show their bloodlust and insanity. I'm not entirely sure how a frenzy passer will work out, but it should be interesting none the less.

Now the Crypt Flayer was one I was excited to bring to the roster. Stat and Skill wise, you may think it's just a slightly slower werewolf, and you're kinda right. In Age of Sigmar, the Crypt Flayer has rules about the power of their claws. I wanted to show this on the roster and knew they needed to fill the roll of blitzer for the team. I also still wanted a lot of frenzy on the roster, so it was kind of obvious to me what frenzy and claw meant. They a bit slower than a werewolf, but make up for it with Disturbing Presence. Should be interesting.

Now teh Crypt Horror. I didn't give this roster any actual big guys. The main reason for this is that I was reading through the battletome and some of the lore and anything that would've filled that spot are things like giant bat monsters and zombie dragons. None of which I think would have added anything substantial to the roster as a whole. To that end, I took a page from the Norse roster and made a somewhat Ghoulish ulfwerener. The Crypt Horror is not the fastest in the battletome so I decreased its speed a tad and gave it Disturbing Presence. I'm hoping this will give the rest of the roster a bit of muscle to be better able to do their jobs and not die like tissue.
Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 21, 2019 - 18:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm sure it's a relatively minor accomplishment for most, but I finally managed to hammer out the first new icons for the teams.

The first guy to get his own icon is the Crypt Horror.
Image
Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: May 26, 2019 - 17:12 Reply with quote Back to top

So I figured I'd give a mini status update. I'm currently working on ironing out the kinks for a Deepkin roster. It's not ready to go live yet, but I figured I'd post here about what I'm currently thinking/working on and see what y'all think.

0-16 Thralls 40k 6337 Thrall G/SAP
0-2 Reavers 110k 8348 Block GS/AP
0-2 Soulrender 110k 6348 Hypnotic Gaze, Tentacle GA/SP
0-1 Allopex 200k 6529 Wild Animal, Bloodlust, Claw, Mighty Blow, Horns, Monstrous Mouth, Regenerate, Loner S/GAP
0-2 Fangmora Eel 100k 5429 Really Stupid, Tentacle, Mighty Blow, No Hands GS/AP
reroll 60k
Necromancer raised as Thrall

Here's my justification/reasoning behind all this:

In regards to the Thrall, once I saw that the main grunt of the Deepkin army was named Thrall that I HAD to do something with bloodlust on this list. Since the actual Thrall in AoS was kinda.. not great, I basically copy/pasted over the Vampire Thrall and called it a day.

Now, once I had the Thralls out of the way, I had to start looking at positional types and numbers. I knew I had to get some fish on this roster, the only question was how many should they have. I looked at the Eels and the Sharks and figured that the Shark was more badass and deserving of that 0-1 spot, while the Eels could have some interesting stuff if I gave them 0-2. Once I had that down, I looked at the other troops of the Deepkin army to see which work fit well on a Bloodbowl pitch. I decided on the Reaver and Soulrender as 0-2 positionals to fill in the roster. One of my secondary goals was to make a roster where you weren't required to take the Shark and could function without it.

Now.. The Shark.. Where do I even start? I took a fair bit of inspiration for this monster from the SL Daemons of Khorne bloodthirster. What I wanted to make was this absolute beast that could ruin your opponent's day just as easily as your own. With Wild Animal AND Blood Lust, things have potential to go pear shaped whether you get him to attack or not. The Mighty Blow and Claw would wreck an opponent's day just as easily as your thralls'. I'm still debating on Monstrous Mouth to be honest. His model has a giant gaping maw and I figured throwing this on there might make people more inclined to take the risks he poses on the field.

The Eel, on the other hand, I wanted to be this annoying roadblock that you have to babysit. None of it's models in AoS are without some kind of handler/rider. I tried to show this by giving it really stupid. And yes, I know that such a bad Nega Trait on a St4 guy is a bit... not good. But you have to remember, that there's Ag4 on this team so I hoped that'd be a fair compromise. I gave it Tentacle to help show off it's Eelly nature. I was debating between that and Grab, but I figured giving it Tentacle now and S access on Singles would show that nicely enough. Also No Hands.. Because they're Eels.. They have No Hands.

After that, I began work on the first of the positionals.. The Reaver. The Reaver is you more combat inclined of the roster. So in that vein, I gave it Block and made it a slightly faster Dark Elf Blitzer. Nothing special, but really, doesn't it need to be this unique creation?

And lastly, we have the Soulrender. This guy was tricky to come up with rules for. There weren't a lot(none) of non magic casters left after I got done with everyone else, and I figured the Soulrender would be the one most likely seen on the pitch. In lore he's a kind of necromancer who uses a strange and eerie light to mess around with the souls of the dead. I tried to show this with both Hypnotic Gaze and Tentacle as the light makes people fixated on it kinda. I figured doing this might make for some interesting plays.

Now lastly, and perhaps the most controversial thing I did, was give these guys access to Necromancer and raising them up as Thralls. These guys do that kinda shit in AoS and I wanted to show that here.

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harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: May 26, 2019 - 20:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Roto wrote:
I'm sure it's a relatively minor accomplishment for most, but I finally managed to hammer out the first new icons for the teams.


Exceptional work for a first effort.
caleb157



Joined: Oct 12, 2012

Post   Posted: May 31, 2019 - 23:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Sounds like an interesting idea roto. Im currently getting into AoS and was finding it really difficult to correlate what I already knew about the warhammer world with AoS, till I accepted it's a near total do over so what I knew didn’t mean naff all. On the team front, SL has a kurnous and dryad roster so maybe a combination of these would suit an AoS setting. The kurnous are heavily based on old lore but I think the wild hunters represent tree revenants really well, then use dryad positionals
caleb157



Joined: Oct 12, 2012

Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2019 - 11:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Roto wrote:
delusional wrote:
Roto wrote:
Here's the currently IN WORK Daughters of Khaine roster:

0-16 Witch Aelve 70k 6347 Frenzy GA/SP
0-4 Melusai 70k 6328 Prehensile Tail, Foul Appearance GS/PA
0-4 Khinerai 60k 7247 Leap, Very Long Legs GA/PS
0-1 Medusa 150k 6439 Loner, Prehensile Tail, Foul Appearance, Hypnotic Gaze S/GAP
Reroll 70k


The pricing is very interesting on this. I would say the witch Aelve is overspec'd for a line'o. You basically have a Wood elf line person starting with Frenzy!

Then you have the Melusai who seem to be LOS fodder. Two special skills and better armor. Their a little too leet!
I would loose G access, you then have a S access character with a few interesting physical skills. It would also cause more blocking with the Frenzy lineman. thinking mv5 could be an idea here.

Medusa should have two heads (useless but fluffy), maybe mv5 or mv4 with Hypnotic gaze as HG is going to be a reasonable game changer.

The Khinerai seem a little too good but interesting. Tactically a leap with frenzy support offers opportunities. for 60k they get 2x skills and no stunty compaired to skinks... once they get dodge they will be try machines.


I guess I'll go into a bit on where some of the skills and pricing for this team came from. Because I agree that it needs some changes and I'm actually trying to figure out just how to better balance it still.

First off, I use this https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=20129 as a basis for the initial pricing for teams I'm working on. Its a good tool, but definitely not set in stone. I make tweaks here and there based on if something is a bit too good in context of the rest of the team. That said, the Daughters of Khaine are currently correctly priced with that formula, but that's one of the things I'm looking at in regards to tweaking.

You compared the Witch Aelve to the woodie lino right? I actually took the Kurnous lino for the inspiration for it. https://fumbbl.com/help:KurnousT The big difference between the Witch Aelve and the woodie lino is that they lose MA but gain a skill. The reason they have frenzy stems from the skillset of the normal Witch Elf positional. Considering that I knew that Witch Aelves needed to be the core lino of the team, I had to figure out a way to take the extremely expensive Witch Elf and make them.... Not as expensive. I looked at what made the Witch Elf so.. unique and settled on Frenzy. Once I had that, I realized that there was already a Frenzy lino in Secret League and modeled them off that. I think it works well to be honest.

The Melusai is a bit trickier. I really wanted them to act as a sort of mix between blitzer and screener for the team. Prehensile Tail comes into the picture due to inspiration from the Snakemen Secret League team. I figured that'd make them good at that role. I wanted to make sure they had both G and S access on singles to help them fill this roll and give them some variety if need be. The issue I've run into with them with the few test games I've done is that I don't think they start off that well and lack basic skills to help them get going. I had hoped that Foul Appearance would help them succeed in what I wanted their role to be, but so far, it's been largely worthless in the test games. I'm honestly thinking about taking FA away from them, giving them block, and bumping their price up 10k. I know you brought up their speed, but surprisingly in the tabletop they're actually faster than the Witch Aelves. I might take a look at that later on though.

The Khinerai are actually giving me the most trouble in figuring out how I want to balance them properly. With their wings, I thought Leap and Very Long Legs would be great ways to express that. And I still do. They're also the fastest model in the AoS army so I needed to make sure that they were faster than the rest of the team. At least by a little. That said, I had hoped that the St2 and Av7 would be deterrents and glaring weaknesses for them. Without starting dodge or stunty as you like to compare, they need a little more build up to become monstrous, but I think they will be in time. I don't like their current price, truth be told. I really really REALLY don't like the idea that a positional is cheaper than a linemen. That said, I don't think I can justify raising their prices more than 10k arbitrarily without overcosting them. Still trying to figure this one out honestly. I'm considering changing their skills to AP on singles and GS on doubles, but I'm unsure. I'd like at least some access to P on this team and Khinerai are expert archers. OTOH, I don't want them to not have G access either. We'll see how it goes.

Now the Medusa. I actually rather like her model on the tabletop and was excited to bring her to Bloodbowl. The issue I had with her is that she wasn't as... dumb or wild like a lot of other Big Guys are in the fluff. She's a cruel and cunning operator. That compounded with the fact that I really liked the idea of giving her Hypnotic Gaze to represent her fluffy gaze, made me very hesitent to give her a negatrait other than Loner. Without a Nega Trait, however, I was rather hesitent in her overall stats. I figured St4 and Ag3 would be more than enough but not too much for a fairly reliable pseudo Big Guy. I'm considering dropping her MA down to 5, but I'm still not entirely certain if it's warranted. I just haven't had enough time to really playtest her thoroughly. (Its really ironic that in the army, the Witch Aelves are the slowest troop choice around.) I actually disagree about the whole Two Heads thing simply because they really kinda don't. Other than the snake hair, but that's not really the same thing?

Lastly, I'm definately planning on dropping the Reroll price down to 60k for the time being. 70k is just too much for these guys, but I'm hesitant to take them all the way down to 50k. I figure 60k is a good compromise to go forward with.
With a sylvaneth team in mind
Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 10, 2019 - 04:53 Reply with quote Back to top

So after a few weeks of tweaking, I rolled out the Deepkin roster to be played today. The final roster is:

0-16 Thralls 40k 6337 Thrall G/SAP
0-2 Reavers 110k 8348 Block GS/AP
0-2 Soulrender 110k 6348 Hypnotic Gaze GA/SP
0-1 Allopex 200k 6529 Wild Animal, Bloodlust, Claw, Mighty Blow, Horns, Monstrous Mouth, Regenerate, Loner S/GAP
0-2 Fangmora Eel 100k 5449 Really Stupid, Tentacle, Mighty Blow, No Hands GS/AP
reroll 60k
Necromancer raised as Thrall

I ended up removing tentacle from the Soulrender so as to keep things.. easier. I also made the Eels Ag4. This should help get them where they want to plant themselves and since they have No Hands, I'm not really worried about throwing more Ag on them.

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